| Time wasting bookings 23:02 - Sep 17 with 2075 views | tractorboy1978 |
Hladky booked 3 times now in 6 games this season for time wasting. On none of the occasions has he been taking any longer than he was before we went ahead in the game. It’s silly. Two more of those and he’s suspended for a game.
Don’t know if anyone heard Heckingbottom moaning after the Sheff Utd game yesterday but he was making a similar point. And apparently the ref told the keeper he “should just kick it long” if he couldn’t play it short quickly. |  | | |  |
| Time wasting bookings on 23:04 - Sep 17 with 2033 views | Herbivore |
It's ridiculous. He got booked against Stoke for taking less time than their keeper was taking when the score was 0-0, in fact pretty sure at 1-0 their keeper was taking as long as Hladky and he didn't get booked. |  |
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| Time wasting bookings on 23:08 - Sep 17 with 2009 views | EastTownBlue |
| Time wasting bookings on 23:04 - Sep 17 by Herbivore |
It's ridiculous. He got booked against Stoke for taking less time than their keeper was taking when the score was 0-0, in fact pretty sure at 1-0 their keeper was taking as long as Hladky and he didn't get booked. |
Same as yesterday. A goalkeeper can only get cautioned for time wasting if their team is winning otherwise take as long as you want. An utter shambles. | | | |
| Time wasting bookings on 23:09 - Sep 17 with 2000 views | benrhyddingblue |
| Time wasting bookings on 23:04 - Sep 17 by Herbivore |
It's ridiculous. He got booked against Stoke for taking less time than their keeper was taking when the score was 0-0, in fact pretty sure at 1-0 their keeper was taking as long as Hladky and he didn't get booked. |
It was the same yesterday, the Wednesday keeper had taken far longer over a couple of goal kicks a in the first half when it was 0.0 than the time Hladky took for the one for his booking. | | | |
| Time wasting bookings on 23:29 - Sep 17 with 1946 views | Facefacts |
We are going to lose Hladky to a suspension, we need to find a way around this unfortunate and probably accidental bias against playing out from the back. The Heckingbottom interview is worth hearing on how the playing out tactics have to change when opponents make a change to try to stop teams 'getting out' in that way (turning defence into attack). He is saying referees don't understand the game. It 's on YouTube. I'm not at our games, but I bet it's the same issue. |  | | |
| Time wasting bookings on 00:48 - Sep 18 with 1820 views | Sharkey |
With the Heckingbottom point, It must be difficult for the refs. I mean they can't just allow a team more time because they prefer to play it short, just as they can't allow players more time at a throw-in just because the opposition has done a good job with their marking and the thrower can't see anyone available to throw it to, or at least nobody he trusts to field the ball under pressure. I mean the goalkeeper might just be waiting till the one person he really wants to tap it to becomes available as everybody kind of jockeys for position. The ref can't have different time rules for hoof-it goal kicks and the modern more sophisticated variants. |  | | |
| Time wasting bookings on 07:14 - Sep 18 with 1559 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Time wasting bookings on 00:48 - Sep 18 by Sharkey |
With the Heckingbottom point, It must be difficult for the refs. I mean they can't just allow a team more time because they prefer to play it short, just as they can't allow players more time at a throw-in just because the opposition has done a good job with their marking and the thrower can't see anyone available to throw it to, or at least nobody he trusts to field the ball under pressure. I mean the goalkeeper might just be waiting till the one person he really wants to tap it to becomes available as everybody kind of jockeys for position. The ref can't have different time rules for hoof-it goal kicks and the modern more sophisticated variants. |
Yeah I do get that but it does seem like there is an expectation at the moment that if a team is leading, they should be taking throw ins and goal kicks faster than they normally would.
Realistically, it is players feigning an injury and disrupting the flow of the game that is the real time waster, and that is supposedly now added on. If a keeper takes 15 seconds rather than 10 seconds to take a goal kick it is neither here nor there and refs have the ability to be able to add the time on anyway.
We can't be in a position where our keeper picks up 15-20 yellow cards for 'time wasting' this season! | | | |
| Time wasting bookings on 08:09 - Sep 18 with 1420 views | Herbivore |
| Time wasting bookings on 07:14 - Sep 18 by tractorboy1978 |
Yeah I do get that but it does seem like there is an expectation at the moment that if a team is leading, they should be taking throw ins and goal kicks faster than they normally would.
Realistically, it is players feigning an injury and disrupting the flow of the game that is the real time waster, and that is supposedly now added on. If a keeper takes 15 seconds rather than 10 seconds to take a goal kick it is neither here nor there and refs have the ability to be able to add the time on anyway.
We can't be in a position where our keeper picks up 15-20 yellow cards for 'time wasting' this season! |
Your first paragraph is spot on and seems to be what is happening. As I mentioned, at least two of Hladky's yellows have come in games where the opposition were taking longer when the game was level, and that just isn't fair. This shouldn't be difficult, there should be a clear amount of time agreed that is acceptable to take a goal kick or throw in (say 10 seconds from the ball being available to the team) and that should be enforced equally regardless of the state of the game. Teams don't only waste time when winning and it feels like sides who are ahead in games are being unfairly penalised at times. | |
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| Time wasting bookings on 08:45 - Sep 18 with 1283 views | stonojnr |
We have a tactic for it, we used it v Stoke, just will be annoying to have to use it every game, Hladky plays to a player standing next to him who knocks it back and then Hladky kicks it short.
Alternatively the favoured receivers of the ball should move into better positions quicker,and Morsey should be there's ear all the time if the oppo keeper is taking just as long | | | |
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| Time wasting bookings on 08:49 - Sep 18 with 1259 views | HighgateBlue |
I'm afraid I've not seen more than the highlights package, so I'm not sure exactly what he was booked for.
Was it:
(a) delaying the restart of play? or
(b) controlling the ball with his hands for more than six seconds before releasing it?
The latter would only be cautionable as a persistent offence, and not on its own, so it may well be the former. The latter should lead to an indirect free kick, but these are vanishingly rare. For my money, this is the rule in football that is enforced the least. There is much made about micro-analysing whether an attacker's foot is over the offside line, but nobody ever worries about refs just deciding to ignore one rule of the game that has a strict, 6-second, limit.
On "delaying the restart", I think the comparison with throw ins is a fair one. You don't have the right to wait until a pass is "on". I don't see this as a bias against any particular style of play. You're allowed a reasonable time, but not an excessive delay. This is just one of the risks associated with 'playing it out from the back'. I love it, I support it, but this is one of its risks.
Given how much we were complaining about delaying tactics in league one, I think we need to be careful not to be slipping into hypocrisy when our own players do it. The motivation for doing it is irrelevant. Whether it's because you're 1-0 up with 5 minutes left, or whether you just can't get the pass you want, delaying the restart is rightly now being clamped down on. When the ball is in play, and it's at your feet, you can take as long as you want.
Refs should in theory book a player every time 'delaying the restart' occurs, but sometimes they'll give a player (including goalies) a few chances before booking them. If our goalie is taking too long, we can hardly grumble that he wasn't booked sooner. |  | | |
| Time wasting bookings on 09:02 - Sep 18 with 1219 views | Sharkey |
| Time wasting bookings on 07:14 - Sep 18 by tractorboy1978 |
Yeah I do get that but it does seem like there is an expectation at the moment that if a team is leading, they should be taking throw ins and goal kicks faster than they normally would.
Realistically, it is players feigning an injury and disrupting the flow of the game that is the real time waster, and that is supposedly now added on. If a keeper takes 15 seconds rather than 10 seconds to take a goal kick it is neither here nor there and refs have the ability to be able to add the time on anyway.
We can't be in a position where our keeper picks up 15-20 yellow cards for 'time wasting' this season! |
As I say, I was talking about the second paragraph, and they're two different points. But I guess the ref might say it's not his job to worry about who is winning or losing, but just to 'encourage' players to keep things moving.
Colcheter had a player booked about 5 minutes in to their game against Tranmere, when a player took slightly too long weighing up his options at a free-kick on the half-way line. On the radio the commentator was indignant (the player taking the free-kick was unsurprisingly a defender, so always at risk of picking up a second yellow) but the 'pundit' (David Gregory, as usual on Radio Essex, and he's employed by CUFC too) took a different view, and said the players have been TOLD they must not dawdle, - and noted that the ref seemed to 'apologise' to Connor Hall for having to book him, in line with the new emphasis. Gregory took the long-term view that we're already seeing a better product (in League 2, obviously) than last season, and I share that opinion. League 2 was horrific last season for time-wasting. (Maybe League 1 was too, but you don't notice it so much when Town are winning most of the time.)
To be clear, I'm certainly not disagreeing about the fairness of Hladky's yellow. Certainly players seemed to take longer for some things after that early yellow in the Colchester game, but on the whole the game kept going much better than it would have done last season. [Post edited 18 Sep 2023 9:09]
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| Time wasting bookings on 09:17 - Sep 18 with 1128 views | Herbivore |
| Time wasting bookings on 08:49 - Sep 18 by HighgateBlue |
I'm afraid I've not seen more than the highlights package, so I'm not sure exactly what he was booked for.
Was it:
(a) delaying the restart of play? or
(b) controlling the ball with his hands for more than six seconds before releasing it?
The latter would only be cautionable as a persistent offence, and not on its own, so it may well be the former. The latter should lead to an indirect free kick, but these are vanishingly rare. For my money, this is the rule in football that is enforced the least. There is much made about micro-analysing whether an attacker's foot is over the offside line, but nobody ever worries about refs just deciding to ignore one rule of the game that has a strict, 6-second, limit.
On "delaying the restart", I think the comparison with throw ins is a fair one. You don't have the right to wait until a pass is "on". I don't see this as a bias against any particular style of play. You're allowed a reasonable time, but not an excessive delay. This is just one of the risks associated with 'playing it out from the back'. I love it, I support it, but this is one of its risks.
Given how much we were complaining about delaying tactics in league one, I think we need to be careful not to be slipping into hypocrisy when our own players do it. The motivation for doing it is irrelevant. Whether it's because you're 1-0 up with 5 minutes left, or whether you just can't get the pass you want, delaying the restart is rightly now being clamped down on. When the ball is in play, and it's at your feet, you can take as long as you want.
Refs should in theory book a player every time 'delaying the restart' occurs, but sometimes they'll give a player (including goalies) a few chances before booking them. If our goalie is taking too long, we can hardly grumble that he wasn't booked sooner. |
The point is the inconsistency we've seen so far this season. Hladky has been booked essentially because we are winning, not because he's taken an excessively long time. On each occasion, he took no longer than the opposing keeper had been taking when the game was level. That's what grates, if they are going to more strictly enforce the rules around delaying the restart then it shouldn't depend on which team is winning, it should be done consistently. | |
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| Time wasting bookings on 09:52 - Sep 18 with 1052 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Time wasting bookings on 00:48 - Sep 18 by Sharkey |
With the Heckingbottom point, It must be difficult for the refs. I mean they can't just allow a team more time because they prefer to play it short, just as they can't allow players more time at a throw-in just because the opposition has done a good job with their marking and the thrower can't see anyone available to throw it to, or at least nobody he trusts to field the ball under pressure. I mean the goalkeeper might just be waiting till the one person he really wants to tap it to becomes available as everybody kind of jockeys for position. The ref can't have different time rules for hoof-it goal kicks and the modern more sophisticated variants. |
On this, refs always allow longer for long throws to be taken than short throws. | | | |
| Time wasting bookings on 10:04 - Sep 18 with 1020 views | Sharkey |
| Time wasting bookings on 09:52 - Sep 18 by tractorboy1978 |
On this, refs always allow longer for long throws to be taken than short throws. |
Very true.
David Gregory, in his commendably East Anglian accent, also made the valid point that the irony is that booking the player also takes time and slows the game down. It seems to me that the best way to speed up throw-ins would be to change the rules to allow the ref to award the throw the other way if the player takes too long. It would also help if the ref had the time equivalent of the white spray that's used at free-kicks to get defenders back the ten yards: the ref has a 'buzzer' on his arm that he presses when he raises his arm to signal the throw in, and if the player can't get the ball back into play within a certain time (and from the right place on the touchline) his team forfeits the right to be in charge of the re-start, just like he does with a foul throw. If the players knew this, they'd get a move on. I guess the same thinking could be applied to goal kicks. (Maybe a corner would be too much of a punishment, but a throw-in level with edge of the area would keep the keepers honest.) [Post edited 18 Sep 2023 10:09]
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