| Boris and the suspension of Government 08:09 - Aug 29 with 8846 views | homer_123 |
The one thing he is correct on is that parliament has been unable to agree on a deal to leave the EU.
How long has it had to discuss and agree a way of leaving or agree to hold a second referendum or not leave at all.
Given the fact our MPs cannot agree anything...why are people so up in arms about the suspension?
What is so markedly different now to 9 months ago that means parliament would be able to debate and agree before the 31st Oct? |  |
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| Boris and the suspension of Government on 08:12 - Aug 29 with 3147 views | m14_blue |
So whenever we have a complex and divisive issue to solve we should just shut down our democracy? |  | | |
| Boris and the suspension of Government on 08:14 - Aug 29 with 3130 views | homer_123 |
| Boris and the suspension of Government on 08:12 - Aug 29 by m14_blue |
So whenever we have a complex and divisive issue to solve we should just shut down our democracy? |
The question I'm asking is, what's changed that means parliament can now make a decision? | |
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| Boris and the suspension of Government on 08:17 - Aug 29 with 3121 views | m14_blue |
| Boris and the suspension of Government on 08:14 - Aug 29 by homer_123 |
The question I'm asking is, what's changed that means parliament can now make a decision? |
Well, we have a new government and a new plan apparently.
Either way, parliament struggling to come to a decision doesn’t mean it should just be shut down, what sort of precedent does this set?
What about in future if parliament was equally divided about whether or not we should go to war? | | | |
| Boris and the suspension of Government on 08:24 - Aug 29 with 3115 views | eireblue |
Parliament is sovereign in the UK.
Not the Government.
Boris is suspending Parliament, based on Parliament not agreeing with his Government.
As an aside, if the new Queens speech, has legislation that contradicts anything that was in the Tory manifesto, then it is un-democratic. |  | | |
| MPs couldn't agree on a deal on 08:27 - Aug 29 with 3106 views | Bobbychase |
Because Brexit is a myth, a collection of fabrications sold to a gullible population in simple terms by a party trying to keep UKIP at bay. A Brexit that isn't a disaster does not exist, therefore MPs couldn't find it.
"Just get on with it" I keep hearing. Get on with what? Volunteering for a recession?
A friend of mine worked as a returning officer during the Brexit referendum. She saw more than one person walk into her polling station and flip a coin before voting. That's the will of the people, being asked to vote on something that was explained as easy, simple and would get the UK's money back from Europe but was in fact incredibly complicated and has consequences we were never told about.
The Pound nosedived the day after the vote and has never recovered, and plenty of jobs have already been lost overseas. The government has deliberately kept the fine detail of what would happen in a No Deal scenario away from the public and with good reason because the stuff that has leaked is terrifying.
All because Cameron didn't want to lose more MPs to Farage.
What a mess. What a completely avoidable mess. |  |
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| Boris and the suspension of Government on 08:29 - Aug 29 with 3091 views | homer_123 |
| Boris and the suspension of Government on 08:17 - Aug 29 by m14_blue |
Well, we have a new government and a new plan apparently.
Either way, parliament struggling to come to a decision doesn’t mean it should just be shut down, what sort of precedent does this set?
What about in future if parliament was equally divided about whether or not we should go to war? |
Have we been offered a different deal from the EU? Have we sorted the Irish border question? What's changed apart from our PM? | |
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| Boris and the suspension of Government on 08:29 - Aug 29 with 3091 views | Herbivore |
| Boris and the suspension of Government on 08:14 - Aug 29 by homer_123 |
The question I'm asking is, what's changed that means parliament can now make a decision? |
There is a very clear majority in parliament against no deal, the suspension makes it harder for parliament to prevent that from happening. I'm not sure what you're struggling with here. |  |
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| Boris and the suspension of Government on 08:30 - Aug 29 with 3085 views | homer_123 |
| Boris and the suspension of Government on 08:17 - Aug 29 by m14_blue |
Well, we have a new government and a new plan apparently.
Either way, parliament struggling to come to a decision doesn’t mean it should just be shut down, what sort of precedent does this set?
What about in future if parliament was equally divided about whether or not we should go to war? |
I'm not for shutting the gov down....I'm merely posing a question.
On terms of war. Weve generally agreed on issues such as that. | |
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| MPs couldn't agree on a deal on 08:31 - Aug 29 with 3080 views | homer_123 |
| MPs couldn't agree on a deal on 08:27 - Aug 29 by Bobbychase |
Because Brexit is a myth, a collection of fabrications sold to a gullible population in simple terms by a party trying to keep UKIP at bay. A Brexit that isn't a disaster does not exist, therefore MPs couldn't find it.
"Just get on with it" I keep hearing. Get on with what? Volunteering for a recession?
A friend of mine worked as a returning officer during the Brexit referendum. She saw more than one person walk into her polling station and flip a coin before voting. That's the will of the people, being asked to vote on something that was explained as easy, simple and would get the UK's money back from Europe but was in fact incredibly complicated and has consequences we were never told about.
The Pound nosedived the day after the vote and has never recovered, and plenty of jobs have already been lost overseas. The government has deliberately kept the fine detail of what would happen in a No Deal scenario away from the public and with good reason because the stuff that has leaked is terrifying.
All because Cameron didn't want to lose more MPs to Farage.
What a mess. What a completely avoidable mess. |
Bob's...that's all fine but doesnt answer my question. | |
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| Boris and the suspension of Government on 08:34 - Aug 29 with 3059 views | homer_123 |
| Boris and the suspension of Government on 08:29 - Aug 29 by Herbivore |
There is a very clear majority in parliament against no deal, the suspension makes it harder for parliament to prevent that from happening. I'm not sure what you're struggling with here. |
I'm not struggling with anything. I'm not for it being closed.
Merely asking a question. If there is a majority why has parliament been unable to agree a way forward? There is absolutely no consensus...if there were there would be an agreed approach going forward. There isnt. | |
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| Boris and the suspension of Government on 08:34 - Aug 29 with 3057 views | homer_123 |
| Boris and the suspension of Government on 08:24 - Aug 29 by eireblue |
Parliament is sovereign in the UK.
Not the Government.
Boris is suspending Parliament, based on Parliament not agreeing with his Government.
As an aside, if the new Queens speech, has legislation that contradicts anything that was in the Tory manifesto, then it is un-democratic. |
Since when did any party deliver on their manifesto? | |
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| MPs couldn't agree on a deal on 08:34 - Aug 29 with 3060 views | Bobbychase |
| MPs couldn't agree on a deal on 08:31 - Aug 29 by homer_123 |
Bob's...that's all fine but doesnt answer my question. |
It does in a way. People are saying Boris is getting on with things by shutting down Parliament because MPs couldn't agree. They couldn't agree because they were being asked to go on a unicorn hunt.
And Boris will find the same thing out eventually.
And by then it will be too late for a lot of people, particularly those who live pay cheque to pay cheque or rely on daily medication. | |
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| Boris and the suspension of Government on 08:39 - Aug 29 with 3042 views | Decoy_Octopus |
What worries me the most is the principle of it. If Boris could do it, what's to stop an even more unsavoury prime minister doing it in the future?
Also would these people who are supportive of this be as supportive if it was Jeremy Corbyn doing it? I mean if it is just "usual procedure" as people are saying, then there should be no issue with Corbyn does the same thing should he ever find himself Prime Minister |  | | |
| MPs couldn't agree on a deal on 08:39 - Aug 29 with 3040 views | homer_123 |
| MPs couldn't agree on a deal on 08:34 - Aug 29 by Bobbychase |
It does in a way. People are saying Boris is getting on with things by shutting down Parliament because MPs couldn't agree. They couldn't agree because they were being asked to go on a unicorn hunt.
And Boris will find the same thing out eventually.
And by then it will be too late for a lot of people, particularly those who live pay cheque to pay cheque or rely on daily medication. |
And yet Parliment cannot agree an alternative.
Can it agree a second referendum? Can it agree to simply ignore the first referendum? Can it agree to simply stay? Can it agree to the deal struck with the EU?
No.
So....therefore given the deal with the EU hasnt changed what is there to debate that they havent already?
If, as Herbs states, they agree that there should not be a No Deal brexit....fine but what then....it has been singularly unable to agree what to do.
So...all I'm saying is Boris is correct in this respect.
I dont agree with it but we can all see parliment is utterly stuck. People are entrenched and wont shift their position to agree an alternative. | |
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| Boris and the suspension of Government on 08:40 - Aug 29 with 3037 views | Herbivore |
| Boris and the suspension of Government on 08:34 - Aug 29 by homer_123 |
I'm not struggling with anything. I'm not for it being closed.
Merely asking a question. If there is a majority why has parliament been unable to agree a way forward? There is absolutely no consensus...if there were there would be an agreed approach going forward. There isnt. |
There is a consensus against no deal. This move makes it harder for parliament to prevent no deal. It's that simple. | |
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| Boris and the suspension of Government on 08:41 - Aug 29 with 3032 views | homer_123 |
| Boris and the suspension of Government on 08:39 - Aug 29 by Decoy_Octopus |
What worries me the most is the principle of it. If Boris could do it, what's to stop an even more unsavoury prime minister doing it in the future?
Also would these people who are supportive of this be as supportive if it was Jeremy Corbyn doing it? I mean if it is just "usual procedure" as people are saying, then there should be no issue with Corbyn does the same thing should he ever find himself Prime Minister |
I dont disagree.
The point I'm making is parliment have been unable to reach an agreement on what to do.
We are worried about being locked in a back stop and yet we are stuck with deciding what we should do at this point. | |
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| MPs couldn't agree on a deal on 08:43 - Aug 29 with 3020 views | mrshallisfit |
| MPs couldn't agree on a deal on 08:27 - Aug 29 by Bobbychase |
Because Brexit is a myth, a collection of fabrications sold to a gullible population in simple terms by a party trying to keep UKIP at bay. A Brexit that isn't a disaster does not exist, therefore MPs couldn't find it.
"Just get on with it" I keep hearing. Get on with what? Volunteering for a recession?
A friend of mine worked as a returning officer during the Brexit referendum. She saw more than one person walk into her polling station and flip a coin before voting. That's the will of the people, being asked to vote on something that was explained as easy, simple and would get the UK's money back from Europe but was in fact incredibly complicated and has consequences we were never told about.
The Pound nosedived the day after the vote and has never recovered, and plenty of jobs have already been lost overseas. The government has deliberately kept the fine detail of what would happen in a No Deal scenario away from the public and with good reason because the stuff that has leaked is terrifying.
All because Cameron didn't want to lose more MPs to Farage.
What a mess. What a completely avoidable mess. |
And driven by one party. They should be punished for what they are doing but probably wont be. | | | |
| MPs couldn't agree on a deal on 08:43 - Aug 29 with 3022 views | Bobbychase |
| MPs couldn't agree on a deal on 08:39 - Aug 29 by homer_123 |
And yet Parliment cannot agree an alternative.
Can it agree a second referendum? Can it agree to simply ignore the first referendum? Can it agree to simply stay? Can it agree to the deal struck with the EU?
No.
So....therefore given the deal with the EU hasnt changed what is there to debate that they havent already?
If, as Herbs states, they agree that there should not be a No Deal brexit....fine but what then....it has been singularly unable to agree what to do.
So...all I'm saying is Boris is correct in this respect.
I dont agree with it but we can all see parliment is utterly stuck. People are entrenched and wont shift their position to agree an alternative. |
Well you're right on that. Which is why we should never have had the referendum in the first place.
But simply pushing through a no deal brexit is the worse case scenario | |
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| Boris and the suspension of Government on 08:44 - Aug 29 with 3016 views | eireblue |
| Boris and the suspension of Government on 08:34 - Aug 29 by homer_123 |
Since when did any party deliver on their manifesto? |
Most of the time.
There was also a withdrawal of a tax change proposed by, I think Osbourne because it negated a manifesto commitment, and sure, was unpopular. But it was the manifesto commitment that was cited.
Some study a while ago, suggested that a government typically delivers about 80% of their commitments.
Which is why I think the UK should leave the EU.
It will be damaging.
But Parliament should be able to determine how the UK leaves the EU. | | | |
| Boris and the suspension of Government on 08:45 - Aug 29 with 3010 views | homer_123 |
| Boris and the suspension of Government on 08:40 - Aug 29 by Herbivore |
There is a consensus against no deal. This move makes it harder for parliament to prevent no deal. It's that simple. |
Lol. You are as entrenched as the MPs.
Parliment has had how long to decided what to do instead of a no deal. It cannot decide. It's been given nu.eroir options...it could even choose to say sod it we will stay....it cant decide.
Its about to lose a handful of days over a period of how long? | |
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| MPs couldn't agree on a deal on 08:47 - Aug 29 with 3002 views | homer_123 |
| MPs couldn't agree on a deal on 08:43 - Aug 29 by Bobbychase |
Well you're right on that. Which is why we should never have had the referendum in the first place.
But simply pushing through a no deal brexit is the worse case scenario |
Ok...so why cant Parliment agree what to do? | |
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| Boris and the suspension of Government on 08:47 - Aug 29 with 3004 views | Herbivore |
| Boris and the suspension of Government on 08:45 - Aug 29 by homer_123 |
Lol. You are as entrenched as the MPs.
Parliment has had how long to decided what to do instead of a no deal. It cannot decide. It's been given nu.eroir options...it could even choose to say sod it we will stay....it cant decide.
Its about to lose a handful of days over a period of how long? |
And you're an apologist. You asked why people are bothered by this, it's been explained to you and you're choosing to ignore it. Likewise you are massively blinkered when it comes to this. | |
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| Boris and the suspension of Government on 08:48 - Aug 29 with 3001 views | Steve_M |
"Given the fact our MPs cannot agree anything...why are people so up in arms about the suspension? "
That is the very reason why the most extreme, most divisive form of Brexit should be exposed to proper scrutiny. The reason no deal is so attractive is because it delays reality from impeding for a little bit longer, as soon as plans were set down they ran into compromises. May set bad plans and implemented them poorly but she faced reality, crashing out is an attempt to pretend that doesn't exist until it's too late to change it.
It's a bit different to the pain-free promises of 2016 as Daniel Hannan is, rightly highlighting this morning:
A bit different to his claims pre-Referendum though. |  |
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| Boris and the suspension of Government on 08:51 - Aug 29 with 2984 views | homer_123 |
| Boris and the suspension of Government on 08:47 - Aug 29 by Herbivore |
And you're an apologist. You asked why people are bothered by this, it's been explained to you and you're choosing to ignore it. Likewise you are massively blinkered when it comes to this. |
Poppycock. Herbs....you are simply unable to see and view a second perspective.
You simply stating there is a consensus against a no deal doesnt answer the question posed nor makes you right.
What's changed now that means parliment can now make a choice and decision? You havent addressed that....have we got a different deal?
Ergo I can see why Boris is taking the line he is....I dont agree with it but an see why. You cant see anything outside your own view. | |
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| Boris and the suspension of Government on 08:52 - Aug 29 with 2981 views | Decoy_Octopus |
| Boris and the suspension of Government on 08:41 - Aug 29 by homer_123 |
I dont disagree.
The point I'm making is parliment have been unable to reach an agreement on what to do.
We are worried about being locked in a back stop and yet we are stuck with deciding what we should do at this point. |
True. The only way out of this would be for an election or another referendum. Thing is though that probably wouldn't heal the division in the country. The hardcore brexiteers would be up in arms if remain won. Causing a surge for the brexit party, in my eyes worse than the tories. If leave won again then the remainers would be up in arms and there will be an expectation of no deal and all the strife that will probably bring.
With regards to the backstop. I thought it was just for if we couldn't do a trade deal? Something we were repeatedly told would be the easiest in history. Why would it matter, we'll have to follow the EU rules if we want to trade with them anyway and I'd rather have that than have trouble in Northern Ireland again. | | | |
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