| Justice delayed on 08:59 - Dec 14 with 1676 views | monytowbray |
I think I said before this is a Hillsborough copycat in the making. Those responsible are either the state, work for the state or have enough money to be protected by the state. They will drag out justice and throw every dirty trick at preventing the truth from coming out, although I think that will be much harder for them in the digital age. |  |
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| Justice delayed on 09:06 - Dec 14 with 1661 views | bluelagos |
| Justice delayed on 08:59 - Dec 14 by monytowbray |
I think I said before this is a Hillsborough copycat in the making. Those responsible are either the state, work for the state or have enough money to be protected by the state. They will drag out justice and throw every dirty trick at preventing the truth from coming out, although I think that will be much harder for them in the digital age. |
No discussion of Hillsborough is wise here. (Legal cases are pending)
As far as Grenfell is concerned, surely if there are lessons to be learned on Fire safety, inspections, regulations, emergency response etc. then the sooner they are learned, the better.
Delaying the findings is preventing the necessary improvements. Can't fathom why anyone thinks this delay is wise. |  |
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| Justice delayed on 13:48 - Dec 14 with 1594 views | monytowbray |
| Justice delayed on 09:06 - Dec 14 by bluelagos |
No discussion of Hillsborough is wise here. (Legal cases are pending)
As far as Grenfell is concerned, surely if there are lessons to be learned on Fire safety, inspections, regulations, emergency response etc. then the sooner they are learned, the better.
Delaying the findings is preventing the necessary improvements. Can't fathom why anyone thinks this delay is wise. |
It's very wise if it's likely your whole business model/political role is about to go down the pan and you may even do time. And I firmly believe those with the power to hold it up will fit in that bracket. | |
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| Justice delayed on 14:29 - Dec 14 with 1562 views | sparks |
| Justice delayed on 13:48 - Dec 14 by monytowbray |
It's very wise if it's likely your whole business model/political role is about to go down the pan and you may even do time. And I firmly believe those with the power to hold it up will fit in that bracket. |
The article. on a quick glance, doesnt even seem to say why there is a delay.
Do you think that, perhaps, the guy running the enquiry would only permit delay if it were genuinely necessary? |  |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Justice delayed on 14:33 - Dec 14 with 1549 views | BlueBadger |
| Justice delayed on 14:29 - Dec 14 by sparks |
The article. on a quick glance, doesnt even seem to say why there is a delay.
Do you think that, perhaps, the guy running the enquiry would only permit delay if it were genuinely necessary? |
BBC news last night on the radio mentioned something about 200,000+ documents needing examining.
I can totally see the frustrations involved but let's have ALL the evidence given a chance to really nail someone. |  |
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| Justice delayed on 14:59 - Dec 14 with 1536 views | No9 |
Disgeceful really, it will be 3 - 3 & half years after the fire.
Areguealbly had the wheels of officialdom not moved so slowly the Coroners report from previous incidents would have been circulated & acted on.
As I understand it none of the buildings currently at risk will be modified to avoid another Grenfell until after the Grenfell report is received. |  | | |
| Justice delayed on 15:03 - Dec 14 with 1531 views | sparks |
| Justice delayed on 14:59 - Dec 14 by No9 |
Disgeceful really, it will be 3 - 3 & half years after the fire.
Areguealbly had the wheels of officialdom not moved so slowly the Coroners report from previous incidents would have been circulated & acted on.
As I understand it none of the buildings currently at risk will be modified to avoid another Grenfell until after the Grenfell report is received. |
What's disgraceful? If a proper job takes time, a proper job takes time. What is it you think should happen? | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Justice delayed on 15:42 - Dec 14 with 1509 views | monytowbray |
| Justice delayed on 14:29 - Dec 14 by sparks |
The article. on a quick glance, doesnt even seem to say why there is a delay.
Do you think that, perhaps, the guy running the enquiry would only permit delay if it were genuinely necessary? |
You have more faith in the justice system than I do. I am purely speculating based on what wouldn't surprise me. | |
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| Justice delayed on 15:54 - Dec 14 with 1504 views | bluelagos |
| Justice delayed on 15:03 - Dec 14 by sparks |
What's disgraceful? If a proper job takes time, a proper job takes time. What is it you think should happen? |
The delays appear to be caused by the various parties being more concerned with their legal defenses, rather than with establishing the facts as to what happened / what needs to be done to prevent something similar in the future.
Have some insight as I recently spoke with one of the lawyers on the case and that was very much his view of the reasons behind the delays. The inquiry is in danger of becoming adversarial rather than being about 'fact finding' which if it happens, will delay the important findings considerably. | |
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| Justice delayed on 17:00 - Dec 14 with 1472 views | sparks |
| Justice delayed on 15:54 - Dec 14 by bluelagos |
The delays appear to be caused by the various parties being more concerned with their legal defenses, rather than with establishing the facts as to what happened / what needs to be done to prevent something similar in the future.
Have some insight as I recently spoke with one of the lawyers on the case and that was very much his view of the reasons behind the delays. The inquiry is in danger of becoming adversarial rather than being about 'fact finding' which if it happens, will delay the important findings considerably. |
If you want a proper enquiry with consequences, it has to be done properly and people will inevitably defend themselves (and have an absolute right to do so). | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Justice delayed on 17:02 - Dec 14 with 1469 views | sparks |
| Justice delayed on 15:42 - Dec 14 by monytowbray |
You have more faith in the justice system than I do. I am purely speculating based on what wouldn't surprise me. |
As usual.
The guy running it is exceptionally well respected. He is going to do it properly- and rightly so. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Justice delayed on 17:08 - Dec 14 with 1465 views | bluelagos |
| Justice delayed on 17:00 - Dec 14 by sparks |
If you want a proper enquiry with consequences, it has to be done properly and people will inevitably defend themselves (and have an absolute right to do so). |
Defend themselves? No one is in the dock Bully, the point of an inquiry is to establish the facts of what happened. Such a mentality is exactly that of the parties in question and is why the proceedings are being delayed. (As told to me)
Whether criminal charges are laid will be down to the police / cps rather than the inquiry. There is a separate police investigation for that from what I understand. | |
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| Justice delayed on 17:22 - Dec 14 with 1455 views | sparks |
| Justice delayed on 17:08 - Dec 14 by bluelagos |
Defend themselves? No one is in the dock Bully, the point of an inquiry is to establish the facts of what happened. Such a mentality is exactly that of the parties in question and is why the proceedings are being delayed. (As told to me)
Whether criminal charges are laid will be down to the police / cps rather than the inquiry. There is a separate police investigation for that from what I understand. |
And yet- if you are participating ina legal enquiry from which there could be serious consequences....
Evidence from the enquiry could clearly be incriminating. Of course people and organisations will be careful- its human instinct.
Moore-Bick is an independent tribunal of highly regarded intellect and integrity. He is not about to allow delays without good reason.
Notably, the reasons for the delay as reported are these:
"The delay is being partly caused by hearings into each of the people who died to satisfy the needs of the European convention on human rights. Coroners inquests into all of those who died were opened and adjourned, which is standard practice when other investigations are going on. But the inquiry has heard considerable evidence and that will be gathered in special hearings before the start of the second stage.
In September, the counsel to the inquiry, Richard Millett QC, accepted that lawyers acting for the bereaved should marshall evidence surrounding the circumstances in which their loved ones died and that time should be set aside for a hearing at which the evidence relating to each deceased could be publicly drawn together and presented.
Moore-Bick also has to produce an interim report on the evidence heard so far and is facing calls from the bereaved, survivors and residents to conclude that the highrise breached building regulations and to be strongly critical of the London fire brigade’s preparedness and response. A schedule produced earlier this year suggested Moore-Bick would take submissions on his recommendations in early February 2019. He had initially hoped to have produced an interim report by Easter 2018, but the hearings did not begin until June 2018.
It is also understood that about 200,000 documents have been submitted relating to the second phase of the inquiry which are likely to take months to process before hearings can begin." | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Justice delayed on 17:27 - Dec 14 with 1448 views | bluelagos |
| Justice delayed on 17:22 - Dec 14 by sparks |
And yet- if you are participating ina legal enquiry from which there could be serious consequences....
Evidence from the enquiry could clearly be incriminating. Of course people and organisations will be careful- its human instinct.
Moore-Bick is an independent tribunal of highly regarded intellect and integrity. He is not about to allow delays without good reason.
Notably, the reasons for the delay as reported are these:
"The delay is being partly caused by hearings into each of the people who died to satisfy the needs of the European convention on human rights. Coroners inquests into all of those who died were opened and adjourned, which is standard practice when other investigations are going on. But the inquiry has heard considerable evidence and that will be gathered in special hearings before the start of the second stage.
In September, the counsel to the inquiry, Richard Millett QC, accepted that lawyers acting for the bereaved should marshall evidence surrounding the circumstances in which their loved ones died and that time should be set aside for a hearing at which the evidence relating to each deceased could be publicly drawn together and presented.
Moore-Bick also has to produce an interim report on the evidence heard so far and is facing calls from the bereaved, survivors and residents to conclude that the highrise breached building regulations and to be strongly critical of the London fire brigade’s preparedness and response. A schedule produced earlier this year suggested Moore-Bick would take submissions on his recommendations in early February 2019. He had initially hoped to have produced an interim report by Easter 2018, but the hearings did not begin until June 2018.
It is also understood that about 200,000 documents have been submitted relating to the second phase of the inquiry which are likely to take months to process before hearings can begin." |
"Evidence from the enquiry could clearly be incriminating. Of course people and organisations will be careful- its human instinct."
So how do we get people / organisations to tell the truth at public inquiries if by so doing, they incriminate themselves? There in lies the issue and the actual cause of the delay. (As told to me) | |
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| Justice delayed on 20:45 - Dec 14 with 1382 views | monytowbray |
| Justice delayed on 17:02 - Dec 14 by sparks |
As usual.
The guy running it is exceptionally well respected. He is going to do it properly- and rightly so. |
Evidence of my “usual” speculations please? | |
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