| well thats not good. Labour politcian takes his own life on 15:01 - Nov 7 with 7290 views | The_Romford_Blue |
Blimey that is shocking
If it turns out the allegations made against him were made up, the women should be jailed |  |
|  |
| well thats not good. Labour politcian takes his own life on 15:05 - Nov 7 with 7257 views | Steve_M |
| well thats not good. Labour politcian takes his own life on 15:01 - Nov 7 by The_Romford_Blue |
Blimey that is shocking
If it turns out the allegations made against him were made up, the women should be jailed |
There's a bit too much of a glib readiness to assume women are just making things up here. That shouldn't be anyone's first reaction.
I'm not going to bother clicking a Daily Mail link but I presume they've followed the Samaritans guidelines here:
https://www.samaritans.org/media-centre/media-guidelines-reporting-suicide |  |
| |
| well thats not good. Labour politcian takes his own life on 15:06 - Nov 7 with 7242 views | GlasgowBlue |
| well thats not good. Labour politcian takes his own life on 15:01 - Nov 7 by The_Romford_Blue |
Blimey that is shocking
If it turns out the allegations made against him were made up, the women should be jailed |
Very sad news. I said last week that I fear there will be trial by social media. I'm not comfortable with a man's reputation being destroyed until there is proof against him.
I understand that names are released in order for others to come forward but it must be awful for anyone who is innocent. |  |
| |
| well thats not good. Labour politcian takes his own life on 15:06 - Nov 7 with 7244 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| well thats not good. Labour politcian takes his own life on 15:05 - Nov 7 by Steve_M |
There's a bit too much of a glib readiness to assume women are just making things up here. That shouldn't be anyone's first reaction.
I'm not going to bother clicking a Daily Mail link but I presume they've followed the Samaritans guidelines here:
https://www.samaritans.org/media-centre/media-guidelines-reporting-suicide |
Of course it's more likely than not that they are telling the truth as their is three of them.
But I only said that because the bloke is now dead. So IF they were found to be lying, there's no going back now as the guys life would've been ruined
That was my point | |
| |
| well thats not good. Labour politcian takes his own life on 15:09 - Nov 7 with 7226 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| well thats not good. Labour politcian takes his own life on 15:06 - Nov 7 by GlasgowBlue |
Very sad news. I said last week that I fear there will be trial by social media. I'm not comfortable with a man's reputation being destroyed until there is proof against him.
I understand that names are released in order for others to come forward but it must be awful for anyone who is innocent. |
I think it's unfair that any celebrity/sportsman/politician that has an accusation made against them results is so many assuming it is automatically true.
It shouldn't be allowed to go public until after trial in my opinion
As for my original comment which I see many are down voting, I genuinely don't know what I've said wrong but I apologise if I've caused any offence. | |
| |
| well thats not good. Labour politcian takes his own life on 15:13 - Nov 7 with 7200 views | BrixtonBlue |
| well thats not good. Labour politcian takes his own life on 15:01 - Nov 7 by The_Romford_Blue |
Blimey that is shocking
If it turns out the allegations made against him were made up, the women should be jailed |
I dunno why there's 4 down arrows for this. Rommers said "if". |  |
| |
| well thats not good. Labour politcian takes his own life on 15:22 - Nov 7 with 7142 views | caught-in-limbo |
| well thats not good. Labour politcian takes his own life on 15:06 - Nov 7 by GlasgowBlue |
Very sad news. I said last week that I fear there will be trial by social media. I'm not comfortable with a man's reputation being destroyed until there is proof against him.
I understand that names are released in order for others to come forward but it must be awful for anyone who is innocent. |
Social media would have had nothing to gossip about if mainstream media hadn't published such a list of suspects.
You never see the same media publishing a list of suspected paedophiles in order for others to come forward. |  |
| |
| well thats not good. Labour politcian takes his own life on 15:23 - Nov 7 with 7137 views | Steve_M |
| well thats not good. Labour politcian takes his own life on 15:09 - Nov 7 by The_Romford_Blue |
I think it's unfair that any celebrity/sportsman/politician that has an accusation made against them results is so many assuming it is automatically true.
It shouldn't be allowed to go public until after trial in my opinion
As for my original comment which I see many are down voting, I genuinely don't know what I've said wrong but I apologise if I've caused any offence. |
In my case because of that assumption; it doesn't need a massive pile on of down-votes either. It's best not to make instant judgements, so yes I agree that first line too.
The media reaction will see a handful of people take the blame for thew actions of many but there appear to be examples of repeated predatory behaviour across many industries. It's clear that the lives of some women have been ruined as well.
The Samaritans guidelines urge people and media organisation not to speculate about the causes of a suicide, there are often many factors. And just because it's possible to make some obvious assumptions - probably two countervailing ones in this case - doesn't meant we should do so. | |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| well thats not good. Labour politcian takes his own life on 15:25 - Nov 7 with 7132 views | connorscontract |
| well thats not good. Labour politcian takes his own life on 15:13 - Nov 7 by BrixtonBlue |
I dunno why there's 4 down arrows for this. Rommers said "if". |
I'm not one of the down-arrowers, so can take this on impartially...
It is incredibly difficult for women to come forward after they have been sexually assaulted, abused, or raped. The process is invasive both psychologically, and, if soon enough after the alleged incident, physically. There is the ultimate prospect of going to Court with an adversarial system where the Defence Barrister may try every possible way to discredit the woman, and may ask demeaning questions in a belittling way.
Imagine if your mum had been raped and you read an online comment about the case saying "If she hasn't just made it up". I dunno why you'd be upset. They said "if".
Do you see?
Police, and those who work with potential survivors of abuse or sexual assault in counselling or social work etc settings are trained to act on the basis of presumption of truth because of the further damage that can be done to survivors if they feel they are not being believed.
Rommers is a relatively young person, and probably hasn't had this training, and I don't believe he intended any malice, but it is right, in a male dominated forum, for those who are maybe older or have more understanding of these matters (maybe their mums or wives or girlfriends or daughters were attacked?) to pick this up and respond to it. |  | | |
| well thats not good. Labour politcian takes his own life on 15:32 - Nov 7 with 7092 views | connorscontract |
| well thats not good. Labour politcian takes his own life on 15:09 - Nov 7 by The_Romford_Blue |
I think it's unfair that any celebrity/sportsman/politician that has an accusation made against them results is so many assuming it is automatically true.
It shouldn't be allowed to go public until after trial in my opinion
As for my original comment which I see many are down voting, I genuinely don't know what I've said wrong but I apologise if I've caused any offence. |
Hi Rommers, please see my explanation below. And see how Glasgow phrased in such a way as to not put potential blame on the women:
"It must be awful for anyone who is innocent". [Post edited 7 Nov 2017 15:34]
| | | |
| well thats not good. Labour politcian takes his own life on 16:34 - Nov 7 with 7018 views | BrixtonBlue |
| well thats not good. Labour politcian takes his own life on 15:25 - Nov 7 by connorscontract |
I'm not one of the down-arrowers, so can take this on impartially...
It is incredibly difficult for women to come forward after they have been sexually assaulted, abused, or raped. The process is invasive both psychologically, and, if soon enough after the alleged incident, physically. There is the ultimate prospect of going to Court with an adversarial system where the Defence Barrister may try every possible way to discredit the woman, and may ask demeaning questions in a belittling way.
Imagine if your mum had been raped and you read an online comment about the case saying "If she hasn't just made it up". I dunno why you'd be upset. They said "if".
Do you see?
Police, and those who work with potential survivors of abuse or sexual assault in counselling or social work etc settings are trained to act on the basis of presumption of truth because of the further damage that can be done to survivors if they feel they are not being believed.
Rommers is a relatively young person, and probably hasn't had this training, and I don't believe he intended any malice, but it is right, in a male dominated forum, for those who are maybe older or have more understanding of these matters (maybe their mums or wives or girlfriends or daughters were attacked?) to pick this up and respond to it. |
I take your point. It's a very good point. But I have a vested interest.
A girl, who I'd been dating, accused me of threatening to "cut her up". I'd said nothing of the sort. The police turned up at my work to interview me... and it was terrifying. One of them (seeing how upset I was) told me that he wasn't supposed to say this, but she'd done the same thing before with other blokes, she was known to them. He said they believed me, but it was their job to follow up anything like this.
Most people believed me (because they knew me and knew it was ridiculous that I could behave like this). But some people, who didn't know me that well, took her side. In many cases, simply because she was the girl. It was a hard time (I'm not going to post HOW hard).
I would never want to discourage girls coming forward. But there are two sides to every story. | |
| |
| well thats not good. Labour politcian takes his own life on 16:35 - Nov 7 with 7001 views | BlueBadger |
| well thats not good. Labour politcian takes his own life on 15:22 - Nov 7 by caught-in-limbo |
Social media would have had nothing to gossip about if mainstream media hadn't published such a list of suspects.
You never see the same media publishing a list of suspected paedophiles in order for others to come forward. |
In all fairness here, they DO when they get charged and it tends to get reported whenever an MP gets suspended pending an investigation, no matter what. |  |
| |
| well thats not good. Labour politcian takes his own life on 16:37 - Nov 7 with 6997 views | GlasgowBlue |
| well thats not good. Labour politcian takes his own life on 15:22 - Nov 7 by caught-in-limbo |
Social media would have had nothing to gossip about if mainstream media hadn't published such a list of suspects.
You never see the same media publishing a list of suspected paedophiles in order for others to come forward. |
Other than Rolf Harris, Stuart Hall who were guilty and other assorted celebrities like Cliff Richard and Freddie Star who were innocent. | |
| |
| well thats not good. Labour politcian takes his own life on 16:39 - Nov 7 with 6985 views | GlasgowBlue |
| well thats not good. Labour politcian takes his own life on 15:09 - Nov 7 by The_Romford_Blue |
I think it's unfair that any celebrity/sportsman/politician that has an accusation made against them results is so many assuming it is automatically true.
It shouldn't be allowed to go public until after trial in my opinion
As for my original comment which I see many are down voting, I genuinely don't know what I've said wrong but I apologise if I've caused any offence. |
Spot on with your first point. How many people look at Cliff Richard and think no smoke without fire? | |
| |
| well thats not good. Labour politcian takes his own life on 16:55 - Nov 7 with 6927 views | caught-in-limbo |
| well thats not good. Labour politcian takes his own life on 16:37 - Nov 7 by GlasgowBlue |
Other than Rolf Harris, Stuart Hall who were guilty and other assorted celebrities like Cliff Richard and Freddie Star who were innocent. |
But no politicians? We're talking about politicians, not disposable ageing second-rate BBC ex-"celebrities".
EDIT: I've just remembered, the evidence files keep getting lost and destroyed. That'll be why. [Post edited 7 Nov 2017 17:17]
| |
| |
| well thats not good. Labour politcian takes his own life on 17:14 - Nov 7 with 6862 views | connorscontract |
| well thats not good. Labour politcian takes his own life on 16:34 - Nov 7 by BrixtonBlue |
I take your point. It's a very good point. But I have a vested interest.
A girl, who I'd been dating, accused me of threatening to "cut her up". I'd said nothing of the sort. The police turned up at my work to interview me... and it was terrifying. One of them (seeing how upset I was) told me that he wasn't supposed to say this, but she'd done the same thing before with other blokes, she was known to them. He said they believed me, but it was their job to follow up anything like this.
Most people believed me (because they knew me and knew it was ridiculous that I could behave like this). But some people, who didn't know me that well, took her side. In many cases, simply because she was the girl. It was a hard time (I'm not going to post HOW hard).
I would never want to discourage girls coming forward. But there are two sides to every story. |
I genuinely have every sympathy for you, and do think it is utterly appropriate for the woman in your case to be prosecuted. In fact I'd go so far as to say that to be falsely accused of rape, abuse or paedophilia is an inverted kind of social and psychological rape, and similarly damaging for the individual concerned.
There are no easy answers here, but in addressing the survivor the principle of assuming a true report needs to be followed, and in dealing with the accused presumption of innocence needs to be upheld. I also believe that the identities of the accused should only be released in exceptional circumstances.
The reason that the Police do release names of high profile people is to encourage others to come forward as a change in the law means that the cumulative effect of different witnesses testimonies can establish a modus operandi, a certain pattern of behaviour. This MO, when corroborated across multiple unconnected witness accounts, builds the case and strengthens the prosecution against a "Your word against mine" defence. | | | |
| well thats not good. Labour politcian takes his own life on 17:21 - Nov 7 with 6826 views | caught-in-limbo |
| well thats not good. Labour politcian takes his own life on 16:35 - Nov 7 by BlueBadger |
In all fairness here, they DO when they get charged and it tends to get reported whenever an MP gets suspended pending an investigation, no matter what. |
They publish lists of politicians suspected of paedophila? Wow.
I must admit, I've missed that. | |
| |
| well thats not good. Labour politcian takes his own life on 17:31 - Nov 7 with 6794 views | GlasgowBlue |
| well thats not good. Labour politcian takes his own life on 17:21 - Nov 7 by caught-in-limbo |
They publish lists of politicians suspected of paedophila? Wow.
I must admit, I've missed that. |
Lord Janner's name was put out there so others could come forward. | |
| |
| well thats not good. Labour politcian takes his own life on 17:34 - Nov 7 with 6780 views | caught-in-limbo |
| well thats not good. Labour politcian takes his own life on 17:31 - Nov 7 by GlasgowBlue |
Lord Janner's name was put out there so others could come forward. |
I don't remember this list. | |
| |
| well thats not good. Labour politcian takes his own life on 17:37 - Nov 7 with 6762 views | SpruceMoose |
| well thats not good. Labour politcian takes his own life on 17:34 - Nov 7 by caught-in-limbo |
I don't remember this list. |
Why not try Googling it... |  |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
| |
| well thats not good. Labour politcian takes his own life on 17:38 - Nov 7 with 6758 views | caught-in-limbo |
| well thats not good. Labour politcian takes his own life on 17:37 - Nov 7 by SpruceMoose |
Why not try Googling it... |
I have. It doesn't exist. | |
| |
| well thats not good. Labour politcian takes his own life on 18:04 - Nov 7 with 6703 views | crunchie1978 |
Tragic news....these matters should be properly dealt with behind closed doors before being thrust in the public domain....like Rommie says if these claims are made up the women making these claims should be severely dealt with. | | | |
| well thats not good. Labour politcian takes his own life on 18:29 - Nov 7 with 6641 views | BlueBadger |
| well thats not good. Labour politcian takes his own life on 17:21 - Nov 7 by caught-in-limbo |
They publish lists of politicians suspected of paedophila? Wow.
I must admit, I've missed that. |
They key word here, which you wilfully ignored is 'charged'. | |
| |
| well thats not good. Labour politcian takes his own life on 18:30 - Nov 7 with 6641 views | BlueBadger |
| well thats not good. Labour politcian takes his own life on 17:38 - Nov 7 by caught-in-limbo |
I have. It doesn't exist. |
It's probably the non-mainstream media burying it from you. | |
| |
| well thats not good. Labour politcian takes his own life on 20:17 - Nov 7 with 6511 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| well thats not good. Labour politcian takes his own life on 16:39 - Nov 7 by GlasgowBlue |
Spot on with your first point. How many people look at Cliff Richard and think no smoke without fire? |
A few weeks back his name came up in something and someone else went 'is he still in prison?'.
They had not only assumed he was guilty but that he'd been jailed.
Which is quite sad really. He was innocent | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
