| Ventilator machine production push seem positive.... 08:36 - Mar 15 with 1433 views | unstableblue |
.... if it can be realised
For me isolation of elderly/vulnerable and effective capacity to break the intensive care bottle neck seem to the the lessons from other countries
Let’s hope we can get real momentum and production going
God I miss football |  |
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| Ventilator machine production push seem positive.... on 08:44 - Mar 15 with 1408 views | sparks |
One would have expected significant orders and funds applied to that weeks ago. |  |
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| Ventilator machine production push seem positive.... on 09:11 - Mar 15 with 1351 views | ElephantintheRoom |
You dont think this is a little bit too latee then?
A comparable number of hosptial beds, doctors and nurses to say Italy would have been useful.... as would not having dismantled care in the community. |  |
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| Ventilator machine production push seem positive.... on 09:11 - Mar 15 with 1352 views | DublinBlue84 |
| Ventilator machine production push seem positive.... on 08:44 - Mar 15 by sparks |
One would have expected significant orders and funds applied to that weeks ago. |
Some would have expected the Tories not to run down the NHS over the last decade which leaves us in a position to not be able to support as many people as we should.
They are now being exposed for underfunding of the NHS, I know they recently said they would invest a lot more money in it, but it's too little too late.
They should have been buying up ventilators a long time ago, but they waited because they were being Conservatives, now everyone wants them.
They're reactive rather than proactive and have been this whole time, they are well behind the curve and their mismanagement of this situation will cost many lives.
Hope you Tory voters are proud of yourself. [Post edited 15 Mar 2020 9:12]
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| Ventilator machine production push seem positive.... on 09:22 - Mar 15 with 1329 views | Guthrum |
| Ventilator machine production push seem positive.... on 09:11 - Mar 15 by ElephantintheRoom |
You dont think this is a little bit too latee then?
A comparable number of hosptial beds, doctors and nurses to say Italy would have been useful.... as would not having dismantled care in the community. |
Altho, to be fair, even if the NHS had been funded to its heart's desire, there would still need to be a tripling or quadrupling of ICU bed numbers if things get as bad as Italy. No health service is going to (be able to afford to) keep that kind of capacity in reserve, just in case. |  |
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| Ventilator machine production push seem positive.... on 09:30 - Mar 15 with 1310 views | ElephantintheRoom |
| Ventilator machine production push seem positive.... on 09:22 - Mar 15 by Guthrum |
Altho, to be fair, even if the NHS had been funded to its heart's desire, there would still need to be a tripling or quadrupling of ICU bed numbers if things get as bad as Italy. No health service is going to (be able to afford to) keep that kind of capacity in reserve, just in case. |
Germany has three times the hospital beds we do....France almost double.... with medical staff to service that need.
Anyone voting Tory over the last ten years should go to the back of the queue - perhaps | |
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| Ventilator machine production push seem positive.... on 09:33 - Mar 15 with 1291 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
Thread titles you never imagined reading on a forum!! |  |
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| Ventilator machine production push seem positive.... on 09:43 - Mar 15 with 1286 views | Guthrum |
| Ventilator machine production push seem positive.... on 09:30 - Mar 15 by ElephantintheRoom |
Germany has three times the hospital beds we do....France almost double.... with medical staff to service that need.
Anyone voting Tory over the last ten years should go to the back of the queue - perhaps |
The critical thing with this is not going to be outright bed numbers, but those which can be set up for intensive care (with ventilators and monitoring equipment, plus the staff to look after them).
I'm not disagreeing with your point about general underfunding of the NHS. That, combined with Brexit-related staff departures, is liable to create its own bottle neck in having the qualified and experienced care personnel. But, with the best will in the world, you can't keep any health service in permanent readiness for something on the scale this potentially may be (especially if we pursue the policy of having as many people catch C-19 as possible). [Post edited 15 Mar 2020 9:49]
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| Ventilator machine production push seem positive.... on 09:58 - Mar 15 with 1239 views | bluejacko |
At least we have a FREE nhs underfunded or not! We could I suppose join Germany France etc in paying health insurance and then hospitals could be built with the money. | | | |
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| Ventilator machine production push seem positive.... on 10:02 - Mar 15 with 1221 views | monytowbray |
| Ventilator machine production push seem positive.... on 09:58 - Mar 15 by bluejacko |
At least we have a FREE nhs underfunded or not! We could I suppose join Germany France etc in paying health insurance and then hospitals could be built with the money. |
OR.
Just fund the NHS properly.
Boris is in for one hell of a shock when he realises he can’t just build staff to operate and monitor these machines too.
It’s like a chunk of the country is blind to the last 10 years. |  |
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| Ventilator machine production push seem positive.... on 10:02 - Mar 15 with 1223 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Ventilator machine production push seem positive.... on 09:58 - Mar 15 by bluejacko |
At least we have a FREE nhs underfunded or not! We could I suppose join Germany France etc in paying health insurance and then hospitals could be built with the money. |
Let’s just get these 40 new ones built before we think about more  |  |
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| Ventilator machine production push seem positive.... on 10:08 - Mar 15 with 1233 views | BlueBadger |
It's no good panic-buying ventilators if you don't have enough trained people to look after those requiring ventilation. Training someone to effectively, confidently and safely use a ventilator unsupervised is a good six months in the making.
Added to this, critical care nursing is notoriously and by neccessity, labour-intensive. Best practice is that anyone who is ventilated should be one-to-one nursed. Nursing recruitment both domestically and overseas has been dropping steadily since 2016 thanks to the spectacularly dim-witted and short sighted government polices of removal of student nurse bursaries and Brexit.
It's also worth considering that the UK has nearly half the per-capita capacity of critical care beds than Italy does.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2020/03/12/the-countries-with-the-mos
Physical space is another issue as well, the critical care unit at [redacted] hospital has space for 11 beds, but only 8 of those have enough room for a full ITU setup of ventilator, fluid and infusion pumps, dialysis machine, monitoring, etc, etc.
Stocks and supplies is another - ventilation isn't just about the machines - there's a lot of consumables associated with ventilators - tubing, filters and additional monitoring kit.
Added to this, despite the weasel words in the Mail yesterday, subjecting the 'most frail' to mechanical ventilation is invariably cruel, futile and undignified.
'More ventilators' isn't the answer, decent prevention, infection control and prompt, appropriate first-line treatment is. [Post edited 15 Mar 2020 11:57]
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| Ventilator machine production push seem positive.... on 10:26 - Mar 15 with 1175 views | monytowbray |
| Ventilator machine production push seem positive.... on 10:08 - Mar 15 by BlueBadger |
It's no good panic-buying ventilators if you don't have enough trained people to look after those requiring ventilation. Training someone to effectively, confidently and safely use a ventilator unsupervised is a good six months in the making.
Added to this, critical care nursing is notoriously and by neccessity, labour-intensive. Best practice is that anyone who is ventilated should be one-to-one nursed. Nursing recruitment both domestically and overseas has been dropping steadily since 2016 thanks to the spectacularly dim-witted and short sighted government polices of removal of student nurse bursaries and Brexit.
It's also worth considering that the UK has nearly half the per-capita capacity of critical care beds than Italy does.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2020/03/12/the-countries-with-the-mos
Physical space is another issue as well, the critical care unit at [redacted] hospital has space for 11 beds, but only 8 of those have enough room for a full ITU setup of ventilator, fluid and infusion pumps, dialysis machine, monitoring, etc, etc.
Stocks and supplies is another - ventilation isn't just about the machines - there's a lot of consumables associated with ventilators - tubing, filters and additional monitoring kit.
Added to this, despite the weasel words in the Mail yesterday, subjecting the 'most frail' to mechanical ventilation is invariably cruel, futile and undignified.
'More ventilators' isn't the answer, decent prevention, infection control and prompt, appropriate first-line treatment is. [Post edited 15 Mar 2020 11:57]
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Shut up expert, we’ve had enough of you. | |
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| Ventilator machine production push seem positive.... on 10:27 - Mar 15 with 1184 views | brazil1982 |
| Ventilator machine production push seem positive.... on 10:02 - Mar 15 by monytowbray |
OR.
Just fund the NHS properly.
Boris is in for one hell of a shock when he realises he can’t just build staff to operate and monitor these machines too.
It’s like a chunk of the country is blind to the last 10 years. |
How much should it be funded by? 80 billion a year? A trillion? What is the "properly" funded amount? We always hear it is not enough. | | | |
| Ventilator machine production push seem positive.... on 10:32 - Mar 15 with 1179 views | Guthrum |
| Ventilator machine production push seem positive.... on 10:27 - Mar 15 by brazil1982 |
How much should it be funded by? 80 billion a year? A trillion? What is the "properly" funded amount? We always hear it is not enough. |
Would help if governments were not so madly intent on tax cuts that they had the income to at least attempt it, rather than constantly trying to find "savings". | |
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| Ventilator machine production push seem positive.... on 10:37 - Mar 15 with 1159 views | monytowbray |
| Ventilator machine production push seem positive.... on 10:27 - Mar 15 by brazil1982 |
How much should it be funded by? 80 billion a year? A trillion? What is the "properly" funded amount? We always hear it is not enough. |
Enough for it to actually function and treat patients properly would be a good start.
This isn’t a matter of “how much” but rather “make some f*cking effort to at least try and sort it out”. | |
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| Ventilator machine production push seem positive.... on 10:37 - Mar 15 with 1158 views | BlueBadger |
| Ventilator machine production push seem positive.... on 10:27 - Mar 15 by brazil1982 |
How much should it be funded by? 80 billion a year? A trillion? What is the "properly" funded amount? We always hear it is not enough. |
'We'll never do enough so we should do nothing' is the most weaselly cop-out of them all. | |
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| Ventilator machine production push seem positive.... on 10:39 - Mar 15 with 1161 views | ElephantintheRoom |
| Ventilator machine production push seem positive.... on 09:58 - Mar 15 by bluejacko |
At least we have a FREE nhs underfunded or not! We could I suppose join Germany France etc in paying health insurance and then hospitals could be built with the money. |
This could be the UK's Chernobyl moment.
Decades of cuts based on the blase assumption that things will always stay the same.
Might also encourage people in this country to think of others a bit more IF as seems likely the pitiful NHS resources are overwhelmed by the cynical approach of letting a potentially deadly virus get a grip before trying to control its spread - just because you dont want to expose just how unprepared the country is to deal with it.
Amazing to think that some were wanting tax cuts in the pointless budget last week | |
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| Ventilator machine production push seem positive.... on 10:42 - Mar 15 with 1150 views | brazil1982 |
| Ventilator machine production push seem positive.... on 10:37 - Mar 15 by monytowbray |
Enough for it to actually function and treat patients properly would be a good start.
This isn’t a matter of “how much” but rather “make some f*cking effort to at least try and sort it out”. |
Then I'd like to see a figure, and the govt telling us this is what wee need, and your NI is going up x%. I would have no issue with this, the majority I am sure would not. | | | |
| Ventilator machine production push seem positive.... on 10:47 - Mar 15 with 1139 views | BlueBadger |
| Ventilator machine production push seem positive.... on 10:42 - Mar 15 by brazil1982 |
Then I'd like to see a figure, and the govt telling us this is what wee need, and your NI is going up x%. I would have no issue with this, the majority I am sure would not. |
Annual budget deficit runs to about £4bn a year. You could scrap the internal market(the whole tier of management dedicated to outsourcing services, usually at a false economy) and save most of that straight away by losing an entire tier of pointless management not to mention removing red tape.
Restructuring obviously brings with it an up-front cost but there's a clear year-on-year saving to be made at minimal expense.
We could also bring in more money by actually closing various tax loopholes and actively chasing those avoiding paying in with no need for further rises. | |
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| Ventilator machine production push seem positive.... on 10:51 - Mar 15 with 1124 views | monytowbray |
| Ventilator machine production push seem positive.... on 10:37 - Mar 15 by BlueBadger |
'We'll never do enough so we should do nothing' is the most weaselly cop-out of them all. |
No one who thinks that can actually say it though without choking from having Johnson’s cock rammed so far down their throat. | |
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| Ventilator machine production push seem positive.... on 10:58 - Mar 15 with 1113 views | vapour_trail |
| Ventilator machine production push seem positive.... on 10:08 - Mar 15 by BlueBadger |
It's no good panic-buying ventilators if you don't have enough trained people to look after those requiring ventilation. Training someone to effectively, confidently and safely use a ventilator unsupervised is a good six months in the making.
Added to this, critical care nursing is notoriously and by neccessity, labour-intensive. Best practice is that anyone who is ventilated should be one-to-one nursed. Nursing recruitment both domestically and overseas has been dropping steadily since 2016 thanks to the spectacularly dim-witted and short sighted government polices of removal of student nurse bursaries and Brexit.
It's also worth considering that the UK has nearly half the per-capita capacity of critical care beds than Italy does.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2020/03/12/the-countries-with-the-mos
Physical space is another issue as well, the critical care unit at [redacted] hospital has space for 11 beds, but only 8 of those have enough room for a full ITU setup of ventilator, fluid and infusion pumps, dialysis machine, monitoring, etc, etc.
Stocks and supplies is another - ventilation isn't just about the machines - there's a lot of consumables associated with ventilators - tubing, filters and additional monitoring kit.
Added to this, despite the weasel words in the Mail yesterday, subjecting the 'most frail' to mechanical ventilation is invariably cruel, futile and undignified.
'More ventilators' isn't the answer, decent prevention, infection control and prompt, appropriate first-line treatment is. [Post edited 15 Mar 2020 11:57]
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How are you managing with this, badger? |  |
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| Ventilator machine production push seem positive.... on 11:38 - Mar 15 with 1072 views | BlueBadger |
| Ventilator machine production push seem positive.... on 10:58 - Mar 15 by vapour_trail |
How are you managing with this, badger? |
Calm before the storm at the moment. A&E very quiet all week as the usual malingerers stay away, I'm expecting that to turn around in the next week or so. Plans *seem* reasonably robust for dealing with hospitalisation but, as well know, no plan ever survives first contact with the enemy. [Post edited 15 Mar 2020 11:51]
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| Ventilator machine production push seem positive.... on 12:12 - Mar 15 with 1025 views | vapour_trail |
| Ventilator machine production push seem positive.... on 11:38 - Mar 15 by BlueBadger |
Calm before the storm at the moment. A&E very quiet all week as the usual malingerers stay away, I'm expecting that to turn around in the next week or so. Plans *seem* reasonably robust for dealing with hospitalisation but, as well know, no plan ever survives first contact with the enemy. [Post edited 15 Mar 2020 11:51]
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I feel like I’m just waiting having dealt with nothing else for the past few weeks.
Can’t imagine how it is for you guys. Good luck. | |
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