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I've joined the Labour party, and trying to follow the candidates in the leadership election and come across this from Nandy, who up until this point had been impressing me.
Questioned about whether Christopher Worton, a multiple child rapist who now identifies as a woman should be able to serve his sentence in a women's prison basically says "trans-women are women, and should be able to serve sentence in a women's prison" - what's worse for me is that you hear this rubbish and the audience all applauds.
This after her and RLB signed that Trans-Pledge thing the other day which says that any critics of Trans ideology should be expelled from the party.
Looks like Labour is happy to carry on burying itself down rabbit holes which affect 0.01% of the population and tie itself in knots over it.
If this Trans pledge becomes policy I'll be sending back my membership card - it's just utter bollox
Why do you say it's 'rubbish' and 'bollox', out of interest? Do you think being locked up in a women's prison is somehow cushier or just don't understand trans issues?
footers KC - Prosecution Barrister - Friend to all
It’s a kind of nothing video, in my view. There are more important things to worry about.
I’m erring towards RLB at the moment, with Rayner as Deputy. I think they both come across well and will go *some* way towards uniting the party. Corbyn should have kicked Watson out as he could never win over the PLP, but that’s all hindsight, I guess.
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Labour leadership.... on 18:23 - Feb 17 with 2741 views
Labour leadership.... on 18:16 - Feb 17 by footers
Why do you say it's 'rubbish' and 'bollox', out of interest? Do you think being locked up in a women's prison is somehow cushier or just don't understand trans issues?
Yes I'd imagine it is cushier being in a womans prison than a mans, probably why 1 in 50 prisoners in a male prison now identify as female sure this high number is nothing to with it meaning they get a private room, get to shower alone and potentially moved to a woman's prison.
Hmmm. I think Nandy's right when she says that "we need to take the heat out of this" and look at it sensibly. That means that we should be an advanced enough society to be able to respect people's right to self-identify AND protect individuals.
Making it either/or seems unnecessarily shortsighted and is being unduly harsh on people who don't choose their identity in the same way that others don't choose their sexuality.
Pronouns: He/Him
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Labour leadership.... on 18:27 - Feb 17 with 2705 views
Labour leadership.... on 18:23 - Feb 17 by itfcjoe
Yes I'd imagine it is cushier being in a womans prison than a mans, probably why 1 in 50 prisoners in a male prison now identify as female sure this high number is nothing to with it meaning they get a private room, get to shower alone and potentially moved to a woman's prison.
Do you not understand women's issues?
A lot switch to being Muslim as well because of the dietary options available. What should we do about that? People are always going to try and game the system.
Look, my aunt is trans so I've got skin in the game, admittedly. Labour adopting forward-thinking policies on it should be welcomed, not shut down by people just because they think it only affects 0.001% of the population when that simply isn't the reality, more your perception. Labour has a lot of policies created by the membership, so why not focus on that instead of this small one? Seems very strange.
footers KC - Prosecution Barrister - Friend to all
Labour leadership.... on 18:17 - Feb 17 by thebooks
It’s a kind of nothing video, in my view. There are more important things to worry about.
I’m erring towards RLB at the moment, with Rayner as Deputy. I think they both come across well and will go *some* way towards uniting the party. Corbyn should have kicked Watson out as he could never win over the PLP, but that’s all hindsight, I guess.
RLB just lacks any personality for me, just doesn't inspire me at all.
I went into the contest thinking Starmer, but more I hear from Nandy the more impressed I am with her - I just hear all the stuff in the OP and despiar that it becomes a contest to see who can be the most 'woke', the Trans Pledge card is a car crash for me
Labour leadership.... on 18:27 - Feb 17 by footers
A lot switch to being Muslim as well because of the dietary options available. What should we do about that? People are always going to try and game the system.
Look, my aunt is trans so I've got skin in the game, admittedly. Labour adopting forward-thinking policies on it should be welcomed, not shut down by people just because they think it only affects 0.001% of the population when that simply isn't the reality, more your perception. Labour has a lot of policies created by the membership, so why not focus on that instead of this small one? Seems very strange.
Gaming the system to get a better meal is different to gaming the system to go into an environment which potentially puts other people in danger (and has happened where once trans priosner has moved and then raped 4 other inmates).
The policies aren't forward thinking for me, they are militant and walk over women's rights
Labour leadership.... on 18:17 - Feb 17 by thebooks
It’s a kind of nothing video, in my view. There are more important things to worry about.
I’m erring towards RLB at the moment, with Rayner as Deputy. I think they both come across well and will go *some* way towards uniting the party. Corbyn should have kicked Watson out as he could never win over the PLP, but that’s all hindsight, I guess.
you think rlb would go some way to uniting the party? err ...
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
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Labour leadership.... on 18:37 - Feb 17 with 2602 views
Labour leadership.... on 18:24 - Feb 17 by Darth_Koont
Hmmm. I think Nandy's right when she says that "we need to take the heat out of this" and look at it sensibly. That means that we should be an advanced enough society to be able to respect people's right to self-identify AND protect individuals.
Making it either/or seems unnecessarily shortsighted and is being unduly harsh on people who don't choose their identity in the same way that others don't choose their sexuality.
Downvoted by the conservative. Figures.
Pronouns: He/Him
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Labour leadership.... on 18:42 - Feb 17 with 2571 views
Labour leadership.... on 18:42 - Feb 17 by BrixtonBlue
Edited. See what I meant to say below.
[Post edited 17 Feb 2020 19:01]
where did he say that?
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
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Labour leadership.... on 18:46 - Feb 17 with 2542 views
Labour leadership.... on 18:37 - Feb 17 by Darth_Koont
Downvoted by the conservative. Figures.
i know complex thinking isn't necessarily your thing but calling a life time labour party member who has never voted tory a conservative is pretty moronic. i think it's also probably a form of mis-naming. shame on you.
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
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Labour leadership.... on 18:50 - Feb 17 with 2494 views
Labour leadership.... on 18:47 - Feb 17 by lowhouseblue
i know complex thinking isn't necessarily your thing but calling a life time labour party member who has never voted tory a conservative is pretty moronic. i think it's also probably a form of mis-naming. shame on you.
Keep your pants on, LoJo.
Pronouns: He/Him
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Labour leadership.... on 18:59 - Feb 17 with 2424 views
Labour leadership.... on 18:50 - Feb 17 by itfcjoe
Say what?
Sorry, I messed that up. What I meant was are you saying people who attack trans people should be fine to stay in the party? And on that basis, should homophobic people be allowed to stay in the party?
I think it's a sensible pledge. Why would you want to endorse, or be seen to endorse, any attack on a minority group?
Labour leadership.... on 18:59 - Feb 17 by BrixtonBlue
Sorry, I messed that up. What I meant was are you saying people who attack trans people should be fine to stay in the party? And on that basis, should homophobic people be allowed to stay in the party?
I think it's a sensible pledge. Why would you want to endorse, or be seen to endorse, any attack on a minority group?
The problem is that the people who filmed that Youtube clip, and who are most active in fighting this, just don't think that minority exists.
These are some hardcore feminist fundamentalists who think God or whoever created Adam and Eve and that's that.
[Post edited 17 Feb 2020 19:06]
Pronouns: He/Him
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Labour leadership.... on 19:12 - Feb 17 with 2345 views
Labour leadership.... on 18:59 - Feb 17 by BrixtonBlue
Sorry, I messed that up. What I meant was are you saying people who attack trans people should be fine to stay in the party? And on that basis, should homophobic people be allowed to stay in the party?
I think it's a sensible pledge. Why would you want to endorse, or be seen to endorse, any attack on a minority group?
But it isn't people attacking trans people, it is people who aren't starting from a position of "trans women are women" with no arguments. Not trans women who are going through the horrific journey of transitioning and all it entails, but anyone who has decided to self ID as a woman has to now be treated as a woman.
Organisations like Womens Place UK, who have fought for safe spaces for women for years are identified in the pledge as a 'hate group' because they don't want self IDing trans women in the safe spaces they have helped secure for women.
Anyone who doesn't think that just because someone says that they are a woman they should be allowed in women's spaces is seen as a transphobe if you read the pledges.
Labour leadership.... on 18:16 - Feb 17 by footers
Why do you say it's 'rubbish' and 'bollox', out of interest? Do you think being locked up in a women's prison is somehow cushier or just don't understand trans issues?
If I was serving life Footers I would immediately identify myself as a gay women and apply to be shipped out.
Human nature.
“Hello, I'm your MP. Actually I'm not. I'm your candidate. Gosh.”
Boris Johnson canvassing in Henley, 2005.
Labour leadership.... on 19:52 - Feb 17 by Lord_Lucan
If I was serving life Footers I would immediately identify myself as a gay women and apply to be shipped out.
Human nature.
Exactly, it's just gaming the system as with the whole Muslim diet thing mentioned above. But to call all of this trans issue 'rubbish' and 'bollox' over one child sex offender (btw, are there many children in prison?) is an OTT reaction to a much wider societal issue.
I'd also try to avoid jail by not being caught. Classic mistake
footers KC - Prosecution Barrister - Friend to all
Labour leadership.... on 19:12 - Feb 17 by itfcjoe
But it isn't people attacking trans people, it is people who aren't starting from a position of "trans women are women" with no arguments. Not trans women who are going through the horrific journey of transitioning and all it entails, but anyone who has decided to self ID as a woman has to now be treated as a woman.
Organisations like Womens Place UK, who have fought for safe spaces for women for years are identified in the pledge as a 'hate group' because they don't want self IDing trans women in the safe spaces they have helped secure for women.
Anyone who doesn't think that just because someone says that they are a woman they should be allowed in women's spaces is seen as a transphobe if you read the pledges.
Well yes, there needs to be some common sense. Transgender people going through the change to become a woman should be regarded as a woman. Big Dave from G Wing who's identifying as a woman now in order to get into a woman's prison should be told to do one.
Labour leadership.... on 19:59 - Feb 17 by BrixtonBlue
Well yes, there needs to be some common sense. Transgender people going through the change to become a woman should be regarded as a woman. Big Dave from G Wing who's identifying as a woman now in order to get into a woman's prison should be told to do one.
Yep that’s basically my view on it, but not the view being signed up to by Nandy here - Self ID as a woman then you are a woman, whatever the circumstances
Labour leadership.... on 20:04 - Feb 17 by itfcjoe
Yep that’s basically my view on it, but not the view being signed up to by Nandy here - Self ID as a woman then you are a woman, whatever the circumstances
If you asked most people what they really think (including Nandy) they would think the same as you and I but the problem is they are petrified to say their true feelings because of the fear of being labelled a gammon faced queen** bashing Nazi
We all know this but no one admits it.
**It seems Quëër is on the banned words list
“Hello, I'm your MP. Actually I'm not. I'm your candidate. Gosh.”
Boris Johnson canvassing in Henley, 2005.
Labour leadership.... on 20:15 - Feb 17 by Lord_Lucan
If you asked most people what they really think (including Nandy) they would think the same as you and I but the problem is they are petrified to say their true feelings because of the fear of being labelled a gammon faced queen** bashing Nazi
We all know this but no one admits it.
**It seems Quëër is on the banned words list
But on the other hand you are asking someone, like my relative, to undergo hugely traumatic interviews, procedures and processes in order to 'become' another physical gender in the eyes of the law. That process is months long and massively stressful as it is, inlcuding very severe surgery and psychiatric treatment.
These prison cases are a tiny minority and not representative of the whole.
There should be some line drawn, but where is difficult to tell.
footers KC - Prosecution Barrister - Friend to all
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