Please log in or register. Registered visitors get fewer ads.
Forum index | Previous Thread | Next thread
Sigh... 08:30 - Feb 1 with 4912 viewsunstableblue











Poll: With Freddie leaving, who is the striker in the McKenna song “xxx in attack”?

1
Sigh... on 08:55 - Feb 1 with 3766 viewsbournemouthblue

Wow

Bring back industry, fine, I can accept that as a hope and ambition but let's see if it becomes reality?

Veterans on the streets has nothing to do with the EU, that's our own failings

Immigrants coming and taking everything? Do they? They have always given us a net gain historically because they are generally younger, less likely to use our health services and most of them are here to work

Okay if you feel your area has been taken over by immigrants and you feel your culture is under attack that is different but the right have deliberately targeted the immigrants for many issues our own government should have handled itself?

Alcohol is the answer but I can't remember the question!
Poll: Rate this transfer window

3
Sigh... on 09:01 - Feb 1 with 3750 viewsOldsmoker

Sigh... on 08:55 - Feb 1 by bournemouthblue

Wow

Bring back industry, fine, I can accept that as a hope and ambition but let's see if it becomes reality?

Veterans on the streets has nothing to do with the EU, that's our own failings

Immigrants coming and taking everything? Do they? They have always given us a net gain historically because they are generally younger, less likely to use our health services and most of them are here to work

Okay if you feel your area has been taken over by immigrants and you feel your culture is under attack that is different but the right have deliberately targeted the immigrants for many issues our own government should have handled itself?


There's a Stephen Fry Brexit vid on Youtube that shows the top 10 Leave seats have very few immigrants living there. Their fear of immigrants is imaginary and comes from years of reading tabloid press headlines and accepting those headlines as unquestionable facts.

Don't believe a word I say. I'm only kidding. Or am I?
Poll: What mode is best?

3
Sigh... on 09:54 - Feb 1 with 3649 viewsDarth_Koont

Sigh... on 09:01 - Feb 1 by Oldsmoker

There's a Stephen Fry Brexit vid on Youtube that shows the top 10 Leave seats have very few immigrants living there. Their fear of immigrants is imaginary and comes from years of reading tabloid press headlines and accepting those headlines as unquestionable facts.


Indeed.

They're the ones who believe that women wearing burkas are a security risk as they could be suicide bombers. What, because the suicide bomber is trying to get away with it? And when has a suicide bomber ever had the need to be masked anyway?

The huge gaps in their real knowledge and experience of minorities, Europeans and other immigrants scare them and are then fertile ground for the silliest ideas to grow in.

Pronouns: He/Him

5
Sigh... on 12:26 - Feb 1 with 3506 viewsgordon

But why on Earth is it only now that journalists have had the masterstroke of asking these people follow-up questions?
5
Sigh... on 13:20 - Feb 1 with 3413 viewsDarth_Koont

Sigh... on 12:26 - Feb 1 by gordon

But why on Earth is it only now that journalists have had the masterstroke of asking these people follow-up questions?


Probably Brexit fatigue. Induced by repetitive, largely meaningless and superficial sloganeering in the public arena.

It's only on the official leaving date that these questions come up when they should have been asked relentlessly of the Brexiteering electorate and politicians for the last 5 years. Instead we've let them get away with glib soundbites like "will of the people","take back control" and "get Brexit done" when the underlying facts and unanswered questions should have been shaping the debate.

I'm guessing that's not going to change over the next 11 months and people will suddenly be surprised when we launch ourselves of the cliff-face. Or more likely end up extending the transition period and blaming the EU, Remoaners and life in general. All while ducking facts and reason.

Pronouns: He/Him

0
Sigh... on 13:43 - Feb 1 with 3361 viewssohamblue74

Depressing viewing.
Morons and racists.

How galling that these ignorant deluded people get to vote.
Reminds me of Gove's comment that people have had enough of experts.

Onwards and upwards. Let's hope we beat Posh today...
1
Sigh... on 14:01 - Feb 1 with 3303 viewsbrazil1982

Sigh... on 09:01 - Feb 1 by Oldsmoker

There's a Stephen Fry Brexit vid on Youtube that shows the top 10 Leave seats have very few immigrants living there. Their fear of immigrants is imaginary and comes from years of reading tabloid press headlines and accepting those headlines as unquestionable facts.


Proof or just your one sided opinion?
-2
Sigh... on 14:15 - Feb 1 with 3273 viewsDarth_Koont

Sigh... on 14:01 - Feb 1 by brazil1982

Proof or just your one sided opinion?


The major metropolitan areas have more immigrants yet are more likely to vote remain.

Smaller or more rural communities with fewer immigrants are more likely to vote leave.

Not even sure why we're debating this.

Pronouns: He/Him

3
Login to get fewer ads

Sigh... on 14:28 - Feb 1 with 3179 viewsbrazil1982

Sigh... on 14:15 - Feb 1 by Darth_Koont

The major metropolitan areas have more immigrants yet are more likely to vote remain.

Smaller or more rural communities with fewer immigrants are more likely to vote leave.

Not even sure why we're debating this.


No proof any "fears" come from news headlines and taking them as fact.
0
Sigh... on 14:28 - Feb 1 with 3177 viewsNthsuffolkblue

"The best argument against democracy is to hold a conversation with the average voter" Churchill.

How we ever got to the situation that it was put to a referendum is disgraceful. Cameron has an awful lot to answer for.

Poll: Is Jeremy Clarkson misogynistic, racist or plain nasty?
Blog: [Blog] Ghostbusters

1
Sigh... on 14:33 - Feb 1 with 3152 viewsNthsuffolkblue

Sigh... on 14:15 - Feb 1 by Darth_Koont

The major metropolitan areas have more immigrants yet are more likely to vote remain.

Smaller or more rural communities with fewer immigrants are more likely to vote leave.

Not even sure why we're debating this.


Was there a significant non-white representation at the celebrations? Perhaps those clips deliberately chose to profile who to interview.

I accept not everyone who voted leave is openly racist, but boy have those who are been enabled by it.

Poll: Is Jeremy Clarkson misogynistic, racist or plain nasty?
Blog: [Blog] Ghostbusters

0
Sigh... on 14:36 - Feb 1 with 3142 viewsNthsuffolkblue

Sigh... on 12:26 - Feb 1 by gordon

But why on Earth is it only now that journalists have had the masterstroke of asking these people follow-up questions?


To be fair, some journalists always have done. It is the mainstream media that failed to initially.

Poll: Is Jeremy Clarkson misogynistic, racist or plain nasty?
Blog: [Blog] Ghostbusters

0
Sigh... on 14:50 - Feb 1 with 3103 viewsm14_blue

“We’re taking back control.”

“What does that actually mean?”

Fcuking finally
2
Sigh... on 14:59 - Feb 1 with 3077 viewsjeera

Sigh... on 14:50 - Feb 1 by m14_blue

“We’re taking back control.”

“What does that actually mean?”

Fcuking finally


Exactly - these should have been the starting points.

Viewing numbers and sales are all that count in media land though.

Create the notion of a problem and report on it.

Poll: Xmas dinner: Yorkshires or not?

0
Sigh... on 09:24 - Feb 2 with 2930 viewsDarth_Koont

Sigh... on 14:28 - Feb 1 by brazil1982

No proof any "fears" come from news headlines and taking them as fact.







Pronouns: He/Him

3
Sigh... on 09:30 - Feb 2 with 2904 viewsStokieBlue

I'm not really sure that continually pointing out that leavers didn't really consider the facts or consequences of Brexit it going to be helpful over the next few years.

It's done. Let them own it and campaign to rejoin when it's possible (the next election basically).

Pummelling them for 5 years is going to entrench their position. Nobody likes being called and idiot or having it shown to them how they screwed up no matter how obvious the facts are. In my opinion there is a real possibility that continuing this adversarial narrative is going to lead to more large Tory majorities and no return to the EU.

Unfortunately the only way some people are going to change their minds is with the cold, hard realism of being poorer for a sustained period of time. Facts and finger pointing aren't going to make an iota of difference to their positions.

SB

Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula

0
Sigh... on 09:41 - Feb 2 with 2854 viewsMullet

Sigh... on 09:30 - Feb 2 by StokieBlue

I'm not really sure that continually pointing out that leavers didn't really consider the facts or consequences of Brexit it going to be helpful over the next few years.

It's done. Let them own it and campaign to rejoin when it's possible (the next election basically).

Pummelling them for 5 years is going to entrench their position. Nobody likes being called and idiot or having it shown to them how they screwed up no matter how obvious the facts are. In my opinion there is a real possibility that continuing this adversarial narrative is going to lead to more large Tory majorities and no return to the EU.

Unfortunately the only way some people are going to change their minds is with the cold, hard realism of being poorer for a sustained period of time. Facts and finger pointing aren't going to make an iota of difference to their positions.

SB


All depends how bad and how poor we get. When everybody's kids are living in the attic and unemployed for a decade and there are foodbanks taking over the supermarkets etc maybe we won't.

Being serious though, the "don't call us thick and racist" shrieking of the last 3 years is fairly hard to ignore or counter when they keep behaving thus. Some of the stuff on the news Friday night made us look like some backwater 3rd world state. The drunken boorish swearing and flag burning is the type of thing people ramble on about with glee when it happens elsewhere.

Poll: If Cook had the full season where would we have finished?
Blog: When the Fanzine Comes Around

1
Sigh... on 09:51 - Feb 2 with 2816 viewsStokieBlue

Sigh... on 09:41 - Feb 2 by Mullet

All depends how bad and how poor we get. When everybody's kids are living in the attic and unemployed for a decade and there are foodbanks taking over the supermarkets etc maybe we won't.

Being serious though, the "don't call us thick and racist" shrieking of the last 3 years is fairly hard to ignore or counter when they keep behaving thus. Some of the stuff on the news Friday night made us look like some backwater 3rd world state. The drunken boorish swearing and flag burning is the type of thing people ramble on about with glee when it happens elsewhere.


I didn't say there weren't thick or racist, just that continually re-enforcing that point and creating a tribal atmosphere isn't going to change opinions which is what we need.

It's just going to lock in the current positions. Take this board as a case-study in miniature - for virtually any subject it will get to the point where two sides are diametrically opposite, they start calling each other names and nothing is resolved. When the subject comes up again they are even more entrenched in their positions and even when presented with evidence will ignore it whilst not providing any of their own.

I'm sad we have left the EU, I want to rejoin but that's not going to happen over even medium term timescales if people aren't allowed to see the error of their ways for themselves. Calling them names is just going to make them perform mental gymnastics to justify the rubbish position they are in being nothing to do with Brexit.

SB

Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula

1
Sigh... on 09:52 - Feb 2 with 2807 viewsMullet

Sigh... on 09:51 - Feb 2 by StokieBlue

I didn't say there weren't thick or racist, just that continually re-enforcing that point and creating a tribal atmosphere isn't going to change opinions which is what we need.

It's just going to lock in the current positions. Take this board as a case-study in miniature - for virtually any subject it will get to the point where two sides are diametrically opposite, they start calling each other names and nothing is resolved. When the subject comes up again they are even more entrenched in their positions and even when presented with evidence will ignore it whilst not providing any of their own.

I'm sad we have left the EU, I want to rejoin but that's not going to happen over even medium term timescales if people aren't allowed to see the error of their ways for themselves. Calling them names is just going to make them perform mental gymnastics to justify the rubbish position they are in being nothing to do with Brexit.

SB


No but people are going to bite, especially when the typical behaviour from these people is so. Taking the higher ground whilst the country is being dragged down and degraded is going to be nigh on impossible.

Poll: If Cook had the full season where would we have finished?
Blog: When the Fanzine Comes Around

0
Sigh... on 09:55 - Feb 2 with 2783 viewsStokieBlue

Sigh... on 09:52 - Feb 2 by Mullet

No but people are going to bite, especially when the typical behaviour from these people is so. Taking the higher ground whilst the country is being dragged down and degraded is going to be nigh on impossible.


Totally agree it's very hard and it's a situation when spending time on social media is only going to annoy people when they see things like this.

It's not even the higher ground, it's understanding that telling these people things isn't going to change their opinion - we have 5 years of evidence supporting that view. Something different needs to be tried - happy to hear suggestions on what that is.

SB

Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula

0
Sigh... on 09:55 - Feb 2 with 2778 viewsSwansea_Blue

Sigh... on 08:55 - Feb 1 by bournemouthblue

Wow

Bring back industry, fine, I can accept that as a hope and ambition but let's see if it becomes reality?

Veterans on the streets has nothing to do with the EU, that's our own failings

Immigrants coming and taking everything? Do they? They have always given us a net gain historically because they are generally younger, less likely to use our health services and most of them are here to work

Okay if you feel your area has been taken over by immigrants and you feel your culture is under attack that is different but the right have deliberately targeted the immigrants for many issues our own government should have handled itself?


Ah yes, because the trading bloc that makes it easier for our industries to run supply chains and provides them with an easily available customer base, is bound to be the reason why they’ve faltered and we’ve become more of a service economy.

The wanging in about industry is as daft an argument as all the others.

Poll: Do you think Pert is key to all of this?

0
Sigh... on 09:56 - Feb 2 with 2773 viewsMullet

Sigh... on 09:55 - Feb 2 by StokieBlue

Totally agree it's very hard and it's a situation when spending time on social media is only going to annoy people when they see things like this.

It's not even the higher ground, it's understanding that telling these people things isn't going to change their opinion - we have 5 years of evidence supporting that view. Something different needs to be tried - happy to hear suggestions on what that is.

SB


Apartheid?

Poll: If Cook had the full season where would we have finished?
Blog: When the Fanzine Comes Around

0
Sigh... on 10:00 - Feb 2 with 2751 viewsStokieBlue

Sigh... on 09:56 - Feb 2 by Mullet

Apartheid?


That's not really a comparable situation in any way.

Continue to call them idiots by all means, it's worked excellently for 5 years (and I've been as guilty as anyone else). I've said I don't know what the solution is but doing the same thing repeatedly when it's proven not to work isn't ideal.

SB
[Post edited 2 Feb 2020 10:01]

Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula

0
Sigh... on 10:01 - Feb 2 with 2743 viewsDarth_Koont

Sigh... on 09:30 - Feb 2 by StokieBlue

I'm not really sure that continually pointing out that leavers didn't really consider the facts or consequences of Brexit it going to be helpful over the next few years.

It's done. Let them own it and campaign to rejoin when it's possible (the next election basically).

Pummelling them for 5 years is going to entrench their position. Nobody likes being called and idiot or having it shown to them how they screwed up no matter how obvious the facts are. In my opinion there is a real possibility that continuing this adversarial narrative is going to lead to more large Tory majorities and no return to the EU.

Unfortunately the only way some people are going to change their minds is with the cold, hard realism of being poorer for a sustained period of time. Facts and finger pointing aren't going to make an iota of difference to their positions.

SB


Yes and no.

Agree that the hardcore just get entrenched but you need to constantly counter their rhetoric for those who are soft Leavers. Otherwise when things go t!ts up it'll seem as if nobody knew.

Soft Leavers have been lied to and conned. And when the sh!t hits the fan and promises aren't delivered they'll be able to distance themselves from the liars and conmen. Hopefully before the next phase too: when the narrative turns even more strongly and violently towards blaming foreigners, migrants and political enemies.

Pronouns: He/Him

0
Sigh... on 10:04 - Feb 2 with 2728 viewsStokieBlue

Sigh... on 10:01 - Feb 2 by Darth_Koont

Yes and no.

Agree that the hardcore just get entrenched but you need to constantly counter their rhetoric for those who are soft Leavers. Otherwise when things go t!ts up it'll seem as if nobody knew.

Soft Leavers have been lied to and conned. And when the sh!t hits the fan and promises aren't delivered they'll be able to distance themselves from the liars and conmen. Hopefully before the next phase too: when the narrative turns even more strongly and violently towards blaming foreigners, migrants and political enemies.


Do you think there are still hordes of "soft-leavers"? Everything has become so entrenched it not an actor that I come across very often. Hopefully you are right. In the case of a soft-leaver though surely not confrontational language is likely to work better anyway?

It's perfectly possible to challenge rhetoric without resorting to combatorial language. It's hard of course, especially when it's clearly nonsense and effecting everyone's lives but it is possible.

SB

Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula

0
About Us Contact Us Terms & Conditions Privacy Cookies Advertising
© TWTD 1995-2024