| Iran changes stance on plane disaster on 07:12 - Jan 11 with 2450 views | ElderGrizzly |
Yep, the President admitting it
We’d known this a few hours since the crash, but Ukrainians wanted pressure on Iran to admit it first.
Of course none of this happens without Trump’s misguided actions in Iraq to begin with [Post edited 11 Jan 2020 7:14]
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| Iran changes stance on plane disaster on 08:10 - Jan 11 with 2388 views | BloomBlue |
| Iran changes stance on plane disaster on 07:12 - Jan 11 by ElderGrizzly |
Yep, the President admitting it
We’d known this a few hours since the crash, but Ukrainians wanted pressure on Iran to admit it first.
Of course none of this happens without Trump’s misguided actions in Iraq to begin with [Post edited 11 Jan 2020 7:14]
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Misguided? What killing someone who has been killing 100s of people, its Iran who is at fault. Shooting down the plane is against international law, even claiming it was engine failure, hope Corbyn will be pointing that out to Bojo in the HoC next week.
EU citizens also on that plane let's see what the EU does, they also need to bring in stronger sanctions on Iran now. |  | | |
| Iran changes stance on plane disaster on 08:25 - Jan 11 with 2359 views | PrideOfTheEast |
| Iran changes stance on plane disaster on 07:12 - Jan 11 by ElderGrizzly |
Yep, the President admitting it
We’d known this a few hours since the crash, but Ukrainians wanted pressure on Iran to admit it first.
Of course none of this happens without Trump’s misguided actions in Iraq to begin with [Post edited 11 Jan 2020 7:14]
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It was blindingly obvious from the second the “crash” happened.
Obviously this particular tragedy wouldn’t have happened had the US not taken the actions it did but that can’t relieve Iran of any of the blame for killing hundreds of innocent people on a commercial flight. Unforgivable. |  | | |
| Iran changes stance on plane disaster on 08:30 - Jan 11 with 2354 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
Iran need to draw a line under this.
50 of their own people died at a funeral.
They killed c.150 people of Iranian descent in the plane that had set off from their own airport.
They launch a load of missiles at Us airbase, many of which didn't detonate.
They are not looking very effective. |  |
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| Iran changes stance on plane disaster on 08:33 - Jan 11 with 2351 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Iran changes stance on plane disaster on 08:10 - Jan 11 by BloomBlue |
Misguided? What killing someone who has been killing 100s of people, its Iran who is at fault. Shooting down the plane is against international law, even claiming it was engine failure, hope Corbyn will be pointing that out to Bojo in the HoC next week.
EU citizens also on that plane let's see what the EU does, they also need to bring in stronger sanctions on Iran now. |
What sanctions were you proposing against America in 1988 when they shot down the Iranian commercial airliner killing 290 people.....or was that just somehow different? |  |
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| Iran changes stance on plane disaster on 08:55 - Jan 11 with 2317 views | giant_stow |
| Iran changes stance on plane disaster on 08:33 - Jan 11 by BanksterDebtSlave |
What sanctions were you proposing against America in 1988 when they shot down the Iranian commercial airliner killing 290 people.....or was that just somehow different? |
Dont see how anyone could argue with that. Im glad they've come clean. Just hope that this will help wind things back down as leaders remember they're playing with peoples' lives. |  |
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| Iran changes stance on plane disaster on 09:14 - Jan 11 with 2276 views | bluejacko |
| Iran changes stance on plane disaster on 08:33 - Jan 11 by BanksterDebtSlave |
What sanctions were you proposing against America in 1988 when they shot down the Iranian commercial airliner killing 290 people.....or was that just somehow different? |
So what sanctions were imposed on the Russians for shooting down a Korean airliner if you are going down that road?or for the plane shot down in the Crimea with a Russian missile for that matter. [Post edited 11 Jan 2020 9:18]
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| Iran changes stance on plane disaster on 09:25 - Jan 11 with 2256 views | Griller |
| Iran changes stance on plane disaster on 08:55 - Jan 11 by giant_stow |
Dont see how anyone could argue with that. Im glad they've come clean. Just hope that this will help wind things back down as leaders remember they're playing with peoples' lives. |
I don't think Iran has come fully clean yet. Saying they downed the plane accidentally is one thing - admitting that they deliberately shot it down because they thought it was an American warplane is quite another! |  | | |
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| Iran changes stance on plane disaster on 09:38 - Jan 11 with 2242 views | NthQldITFC |
Quite apart from ALL of the context, it's really quite refreshing to hear any government admit such an error particularly after starting out along the usual path of ludicrous denial.
Of course the vast majority of people would have realised that this was the only realistic explanation from the start, but that has not stopped governments, companies, or other large estates from trying to cover up the uncoverupable in the past, and managing to pull the wool over the eyes a vocal few of the ignorant or the wilfully gullible.
And just to be clear I'm talking purely about the honesty of the admission and not about any of the other moronic actions or spin of either side. |  |
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| Iran changes stance on plane disaster on 09:56 - Jan 11 with 2201 views | Ely_Blue |
| Iran changes stance on plane disaster on 08:10 - Jan 11 by BloomBlue |
Misguided? What killing someone who has been killing 100s of people, its Iran who is at fault. Shooting down the plane is against international law, even claiming it was engine failure, hope Corbyn will be pointing that out to Bojo in the HoC next week.
EU citizens also on that plane let's see what the EU does, they also need to bring in stronger sanctions on Iran now. |
And the assasination of a foreign national in a neighbouring country is ok and legit?
Without the attack on the Iranian guy in Iraq this doesnt happen, end of |  |
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| Iran changes stance on plane disaster on 09:59 - Jan 11 with 2183 views | Herbivore |
Owning up is the right move from them. What happened is awful but at least by owning it they are taking responsibility and it should reduce the likelihood of further escalation. |  |
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| Iran changes stance on plane disaster on 09:59 - Jan 11 with 2185 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Iran changes stance on plane disaster on 09:38 - Jan 11 by NthQldITFC |
Quite apart from ALL of the context, it's really quite refreshing to hear any government admit such an error particularly after starting out along the usual path of ludicrous denial.
Of course the vast majority of people would have realised that this was the only realistic explanation from the start, but that has not stopped governments, companies, or other large estates from trying to cover up the uncoverupable in the past, and managing to pull the wool over the eyes a vocal few of the ignorant or the wilfully gullible.
And just to be clear I'm talking purely about the honesty of the admission and not about any of the other moronic actions or spin of either side. |
I fully agree with this. The Iranians may be one of the most bonkers governments but to admit this is quite astonishing. If America had done this there is no way in the world they would have admitted it.
CIA instructions for anything is “Maintain the standard line of denial”
Didn’t the Yanks consider blowing up the Australian Prime Minister in the 70’s?
They also still deny blowing up baby milk factory and civilian air raid shelter in Iraq 1
"Mother can I trust the government?" [Post edited 11 Jan 2020 10:22]
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| Iran changes stance on plane disaster on 10:06 - Jan 11 with 2164 views | TractorWood |
| Iran changes stance on plane disaster on 09:38 - Jan 11 by NthQldITFC |
Quite apart from ALL of the context, it's really quite refreshing to hear any government admit such an error particularly after starting out along the usual path of ludicrous denial.
Of course the vast majority of people would have realised that this was the only realistic explanation from the start, but that has not stopped governments, companies, or other large estates from trying to cover up the uncoverupable in the past, and managing to pull the wool over the eyes a vocal few of the ignorant or the wilfully gullible.
And just to be clear I'm talking purely about the honesty of the admission and not about any of the other moronic actions or spin of either side. |
Agree. It's not very 2020 to admit to something everyone knows you did. |  |
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| Iran changes stance on plane disaster on 11:21 - Jan 11 with 2099 views | Guthrum |
Sadly, it was always a highly likely scenario considering the circumstances and context. In reality, they have admitted it quite quickly (three days), abeit under international/internet evidential pressure.
Where to go? Official apologies and extensive negotiations about compensation. This was an accident, after all, not a deliberate act. Could happen to anyone - as it did with the USS Vincennes shooting down of an Iranian airliner in 1988 under quite similar circumstances. |  |
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| Iran changes stance on plane disaster on 11:44 - Jan 11 with 2058 views | Guthrum |
| Iran changes stance on plane disaster on 08:10 - Jan 11 by BloomBlue |
Misguided? What killing someone who has been killing 100s of people, its Iran who is at fault. Shooting down the plane is against international law, even claiming it was engine failure, hope Corbyn will be pointing that out to Bojo in the HoC next week.
EU citizens also on that plane let's see what the EU does, they also need to bring in stronger sanctions on Iran now. |
Vigilantism is still, legally, murder, however justified you think it might be. The extrajudicial killing of Soulemani outside of wartime is that, whatever his heinous activites (which are, in any case, not dissimilar to those of past CIA operatives in Central America, for example).
Also, this was an error, not a deliberate act. Sanctions would only be appropriate in the event of denial and non-cooperation in the face of evidence. Iran has admitted what happened - fairly quickly*, in reality - thus the regime is not at fault.
* They were in the throes of a major international crisis at the time. | |
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| Iran changes stance on plane disaster on 11:48 - Jan 11 with 2038 views | Guthrum |
| Iran changes stance on plane disaster on 09:25 - Jan 11 by Griller |
I don't think Iran has come fully clean yet. Saying they downed the plane accidentally is one thing - admitting that they deliberately shot it down because they thought it was an American warplane is quite another! |
The two are one and the same. A case of mistaken identity.
You don't launch a modern anti-aircraft missile and have it accidentally hit the wrong target. It's all about an incorrect initial identification. | |
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| Iran changes stance on plane disaster on 13:24 - Jan 11 with 1947 views | hampstead_blue |
| Iran changes stance on plane disaster on 11:44 - Jan 11 by Guthrum |
Vigilantism is still, legally, murder, however justified you think it might be. The extrajudicial killing of Soulemani outside of wartime is that, whatever his heinous activites (which are, in any case, not dissimilar to those of past CIA operatives in Central America, for example).
Also, this was an error, not a deliberate act. Sanctions would only be appropriate in the event of denial and non-cooperation in the face of evidence. Iran has admitted what happened - fairly quickly*, in reality - thus the regime is not at fault.
* They were in the throes of a major international crisis at the time. |
The USA had fair right to take out Soulemani.
If you watch the recent documentary on the BBC about him then he's had it coming for some time.
We are at war, not on an official standing, but low intensity, asymmetric warfare. He has been a viable target for both is and the US for years.
Look at how he armed the militia in Basra who murdered British service personnel.
So far as the downing of the civilian plane is concerned I find Iran's explanation insulting.
Radar signatures of a passenger jet and fast jet are black and white. If you think a missile operator got his F-16 from 737 the wrong way around I would state naivety.
If it were an error, why has it not happened before?
This Labour regime will never criticize Iran openly without a letter to them stating "Look I've got to do this for the cameras, I don't really mean it. Is my TV deal still on when I stand down from being Supreme Leader?" |  |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
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| Iran changes stance on plane disaster on 13:46 - Jan 11 with 1895 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Iran changes stance on plane disaster on 08:55 - Jan 11 by giant_stow |
Dont see how anyone could argue with that. Im glad they've come clean. Just hope that this will help wind things back down as leaders remember they're playing with peoples' lives. |
Well said. |  |
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| Iran changes stance on plane disaster on 13:55 - Jan 11 with 1867 views | BlueNomad |
| Iran changes stance on plane disaster on 13:24 - Jan 11 by hampstead_blue |
The USA had fair right to take out Soulemani.
If you watch the recent documentary on the BBC about him then he's had it coming for some time.
We are at war, not on an official standing, but low intensity, asymmetric warfare. He has been a viable target for both is and the US for years.
Look at how he armed the militia in Basra who murdered British service personnel.
So far as the downing of the civilian plane is concerned I find Iran's explanation insulting.
Radar signatures of a passenger jet and fast jet are black and white. If you think a missile operator got his F-16 from 737 the wrong way around I would state naivety.
If it were an error, why has it not happened before?
This Labour regime will never criticize Iran openly without a letter to them stating "Look I've got to do this for the cameras, I don't really mean it. Is my TV deal still on when I stand down from being Supreme Leader?" |
What have Labour got to do with this? They are not in power. I am more interested to see how the government responds. |  | | |
| Iran changes stance on plane disaster on 13:59 - Jan 11 with 1847 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Iran changes stance on plane disaster on 13:55 - Jan 11 by BlueNomad |
What have Labour got to do with this? They are not in power. I am more interested to see how the government responds. |
It’s his stock approach to everything. | |
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| Iran changes stance on plane disaster on 14:06 - Jan 11 with 1829 views | Pendejo |
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-51073621
There's some interesting statements here, particularly this one...
"Brig-Gen Amir Ali Hajizadeh, the Revolutionary Guards aerospace commander, said the force took "full responsibility" for the crash.
He said a request had been made for a no-fly zone in the area before the incident but - for reasons that are unclear - this was rejected.
Gen Hajizadeh also said the aircraft was shot down by a short-range missile that exploded next to it. He said he informed the authorities about what had happened on Wednesday, days before Iran publicly admitted its involvement."
What ever the scenario, methinks whoever relayed the order and / or pressed buttons which resulted in this tragedy may well have already been summarily dismissed from life [executed] so they can't rebut anything said thereafter. |  |
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| Iran changes stance on plane disaster on 14:26 - Jan 11 with 1785 views | hampstead_blue |
| Iran changes stance on plane disaster on 13:55 - Jan 11 by BlueNomad |
What have Labour got to do with this? They are not in power. I am more interested to see how the government responds. |
Our gov will back the USA. I was simply showing the apologists on the other side of the house.
I didn't add that I was with a few Royal Marines yesterday. We had a brief chat about this and they all agreed with me.
According to them, Soulimani has been a known target for a long time. He was on the clock. Only a matter of time before the USA did the job.
I think Trump has signalled that he is prepared act. Iran will back down, they have no choice. | |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| Iran changes stance on plane disaster on 14:39 - Jan 11 with 1766 views | BlueNomad |
| Iran changes stance on plane disaster on 14:26 - Jan 11 by hampstead_blue |
Our gov will back the USA. I was simply showing the apologists on the other side of the house.
I didn't add that I was with a few Royal Marines yesterday. We had a brief chat about this and they all agreed with me.
According to them, Soulimani has been a known target for a long time. He was on the clock. Only a matter of time before the USA did the job.
I think Trump has signalled that he is prepared act. Iran will back down, they have no choice. |
I am not aware there are any apologists on the Labour benches. There are questions to be answered about legality but ultimately the opposition should be prepared to challenge blind loyalty to the US especially when this moron is president. | | | |
| Iran changes stance on plane disaster on 16:21 - Jan 11 with 1683 views | hampstead_blue |
| Iran changes stance on plane disaster on 14:39 - Jan 11 by BlueNomad |
I am not aware there are any apologists on the Labour benches. There are questions to be answered about legality but ultimately the opposition should be prepared to challenge blind loyalty to the US especially when this moron is president. |
I think the legality question is a red herring and a chance to swerve the gaze to something else.
Think Russian poisoning in Salisbury.
Trump was correct. Iran have shown how brutal and ruthless they are and need to be checked and discouraged. | |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| Iran changes stance on plane disaster on 16:40 - Jan 11 with 1640 views | jaykay |
| Iran changes stance on plane disaster on 13:24 - Jan 11 by hampstead_blue |
The USA had fair right to take out Soulemani.
If you watch the recent documentary on the BBC about him then he's had it coming for some time.
We are at war, not on an official standing, but low intensity, asymmetric warfare. He has been a viable target for both is and the US for years.
Look at how he armed the militia in Basra who murdered British service personnel.
So far as the downing of the civilian plane is concerned I find Iran's explanation insulting.
Radar signatures of a passenger jet and fast jet are black and white. If you think a missile operator got his F-16 from 737 the wrong way around I would state naivety.
If it were an error, why has it not happened before?
This Labour regime will never criticize Iran openly without a letter to them stating "Look I've got to do this for the cameras, I don't really mean it. Is my TV deal still on when I stand down from being Supreme Leader?" |
you must have missed the bit where people have pointed out the usa shot down a plane by mistake. but i expect its all corbyns fault. havent noticed what boris has said about all this so far, as he the prime minister. |  |
| forensic experts say footers and spruces fingerprints were not found at the scene after the weekends rows |
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