| Can you grasp an idea? 11:58 - Oct 22 with 1354 views | WeWereZombies |
Given that the thing is immaterial (and if ideas are immaterial why do they matter so much - but that is a linguistic aside).
I know some posters will come back with an argument that you can grasp an idea because you can see brain states but that is the representation and not the content. And how can you be sure that a set of electrical charges and a neural network in one brain mean the same thing in another brain? |  |
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| Can you grasp an idea? on 12:04 - Oct 22 with 1337 views | Darth_Koont |
For me, I'd have to say a good, sharp cheddar. |  |
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| Can you grasp an idea? on 12:52 - Oct 22 with 1313 views | Swansea_Blue |
Are you Dolly?
Are you Dolly?
Are you Dolly in disguise? |  |
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| Can you grasp an idea? on 12:55 - Oct 22 with 1309 views | WeWereZombies |
| Can you grasp an idea? on 12:52 - Oct 22 by Swansea_Blue |
Are you Dolly?
Are you Dolly?
Are you Dolly in disguise? |
I thought my attempt at inducing a bit of introspection to the forum was a bit more nuanced than the Brixton Blue ponderings.
Apparently not. | |
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| Can you grasp an idea? on 12:57 - Oct 22 with 1303 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Can you grasp an idea? on 12:55 - Oct 22 by WeWereZombies |
I thought my attempt at inducing a bit of introspection to the forum was a bit more nuanced than the Brixton Blue ponderings.
Apparently not. |
You might have over-reached for your audience (except Guthers)  | |
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| Can you grasp an idea? on 12:58 - Oct 22 with 1299 views | StokieBlue |
I think you're trying too hard now.
It's a metaphor.
The whole second paragraph is just silly, the last line especially is irrelevant.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Can you grasp an idea? on 12:58 - Oct 22 with 1294 views | Herbivore |
The whole thing looks like a language issue. Change 'grasp an idea' for 'understand a proposition' and there doesn't seem to be a problem. The two essentially mean the same thing. |  |
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| Can you grasp an idea? on 12:59 - Oct 22 with 1290 views | WeWereZombies |
| Can you grasp an idea? on 12:57 - Oct 22 by Swansea_Blue |
You might have over-reached for your audience (except Guthers) |
I'll have a think about how how else I could frame it. I guess 'You lot haven't got a clue' might be a little confrontational... | |
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| Can you grasp an idea? on 13:01 - Oct 22 with 1283 views | artsbossbeard |
Jim Fitzpatrick, Labour MP for Poplar & Limehouse is supporting the deal and "hopes" that he'll get a chance to properly read it through properly prior to the vote tonight.
That's quite a grasp of an idea. [Post edited 22 Oct 2019 13:03]
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| Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing. | | Poll: | Raining in IP8 - shall I get the washing in? |
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| Can you grasp an idea? on 13:30 - Oct 22 with 1229 views | Darth_Koont |
On a serious note, they don't mean the same thing and they arguably shouldn't.
Even if you hardwired the connection to get a seamless flow of data between one brain and another, we're not like computers who have a failsafe way of expressing that data.
That's the struggle in AI to replicate the "flawed" nature of human thinking that helps us come up with new ideas and see new patterns from the same information. A bit like DNA is flawed which allows variation and evolution.
Back on a less serious note, I'm concerned for Phil's wellbeing. He's way behind schedule in making his great joke about semiotics. | |
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| Can you grasp an idea? on 13:36 - Oct 22 with 1216 views | Herbivore |
| Can you grasp an idea? on 13:01 - Oct 22 by artsbossbeard |
Jim Fitzpatrick, Labour MP for Poplar & Limehouse is supporting the deal and "hopes" that he'll get a chance to properly read it through properly prior to the vote tonight.
That's quite a grasp of an idea. [Post edited 22 Oct 2019 13:03]
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I wanted to punch him through the radio earlier. Utter bellend. He had no comprehension of the issues with the deal and seemed set on voting for it regardless of content. | |
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| Can you grasp an idea? on 13:37 - Oct 22 with 1204 views | WeWereZombies |
| Can you grasp an idea? on 12:58 - Oct 22 by Herbivore |
The whole thing looks like a language issue. Change 'grasp an idea' for 'understand a proposition' and there doesn't seem to be a problem. The two essentially mean the same thing. |
No.
You see Swanners was saying I had made it too complex but your reply has me realising that my flippant aside as an attempt to ease people in has just confused you because the post needed more groundwork.
An idea is a phenomenon, we experience it as some collection of thoughts (which are insubstantial yet have a presence within us) but that is not to say that the idea is original. In fact the likelihood of an original idea is very remote, it will have occurred elsewhere and probably many times.
But the idea of electrons flowing along a wire is not the flow of electrons along that wire but a theory about them. When it is put into print the ink on the paper is only the communication, not the idea itself. | |
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| Can you grasp an idea? on 13:40 - Oct 22 with 1196 views | Herbivore |
| Can you grasp an idea? on 13:37 - Oct 22 by WeWereZombies |
No.
You see Swanners was saying I had made it too complex but your reply has me realising that my flippant aside as an attempt to ease people in has just confused you because the post needed more groundwork.
An idea is a phenomenon, we experience it as some collection of thoughts (which are insubstantial yet have a presence within us) but that is not to say that the idea is original. In fact the likelihood of an original idea is very remote, it will have occurred elsewhere and probably many times.
But the idea of electrons flowing along a wire is not the flow of electrons along that wire but a theory about them. When it is put into print the ink on the paper is only the communication, not the idea itself. |
You're just confusing yourself here I feel. | |
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| Can you grasp an idea? on 13:41 - Oct 22 with 1192 views | WeWereZombies |
| Can you grasp an idea? on 12:58 - Oct 22 by StokieBlue |
I think you're trying too hard now.
It's a metaphor.
The whole second paragraph is just silly, the last line especially is irrelevant.
SB |
Rather than just try and blindside the issue have a go at understanding the point and reasoning your way to any defects you can find in the proposal. Rejecting things out of hand is more likely to leave you impoverished (mentally) than it is to likely to stop me considering a vital point that has been under discussion for the last four hundred years (at least) without a resolution. | |
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| Can you grasp an idea? on 13:42 - Oct 22 with 1186 views | Herbivore |
| Can you grasp an idea? on 13:41 - Oct 22 by WeWereZombies |
Rather than just try and blindside the issue have a go at understanding the point and reasoning your way to any defects you can find in the proposal. Rejecting things out of hand is more likely to leave you impoverished (mentally) than it is to likely to stop me considering a vital point that has been under discussion for the last four hundred years (at least) without a resolution. |
If you can't answer a question after 400 years of thinking about it then the question itself is probably deeply flawed. | |
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| Can you grasp an idea? on 13:49 - Oct 22 with 1176 views | StokieBlue |
| Can you grasp an idea? on 13:41 - Oct 22 by WeWereZombies |
Rather than just try and blindside the issue have a go at understanding the point and reasoning your way to any defects you can find in the proposal. Rejecting things out of hand is more likely to leave you impoverished (mentally) than it is to likely to stop me considering a vital point that has been under discussion for the last four hundred years (at least) without a resolution. |
But the point is incoherent:
"Given that the thing is immaterial (and if ideas are immaterial why do they matter so much - but that is a linguistic aside)."
This is just philosophical self-indulgence. I know it's your specialisation but you've spent two weeks trying to integrate philosophy and science when no integration is needed.
I know some posters will come back with an argument that you can grasp an idea because you can see brain states but that is the representation and not the content.
To grasp an idea is purely a metaphorical construct. I don't even know what point you're trying to make in relating it vaguely to science.
And how can you be sure that a set of electrical charges and a neural network in one brain mean the same thing in another brain?
They won't mean the same thing. Each brain is unique as is each simulated brain (neural networks). They aren't supposed to mean the same thing in different brains and it's fundamentally wrong to even put the question in the way you have. That doesn't mean that two different representations of the same thing aren't possible.
It's not a vital point and hasn't been under discussion for 400 years in the format you've posted it because none of your points about the brain were understood 400 years ago.
I honestly don't see why you feel the need to mix your philosophical musing with science - they are just fine as philosophical musings - they go totally off course when you try and mix the two.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Can you grasp an idea? on 14:01 - Oct 22 with 1152 views | WeWereZombies |
| Can you grasp an idea? on 13:49 - Oct 22 by StokieBlue |
But the point is incoherent:
"Given that the thing is immaterial (and if ideas are immaterial why do they matter so much - but that is a linguistic aside)."
This is just philosophical self-indulgence. I know it's your specialisation but you've spent two weeks trying to integrate philosophy and science when no integration is needed.
I know some posters will come back with an argument that you can grasp an idea because you can see brain states but that is the representation and not the content.
To grasp an idea is purely a metaphorical construct. I don't even know what point you're trying to make in relating it vaguely to science.
And how can you be sure that a set of electrical charges and a neural network in one brain mean the same thing in another brain?
They won't mean the same thing. Each brain is unique as is each simulated brain (neural networks). They aren't supposed to mean the same thing in different brains and it's fundamentally wrong to even put the question in the way you have. That doesn't mean that two different representations of the same thing aren't possible.
It's not a vital point and hasn't been under discussion for 400 years in the format you've posted it because none of your points about the brain were understood 400 years ago.
I honestly don't see why you feel the need to mix your philosophical musing with science - they are just fine as philosophical musings - they go totally off course when you try and mix the two.
SB |
That really is not a considered response, and I am deeply upset by your refusal to even try and understand a very basic point. I started my OP off with a bit of introductory humour and what I get back is this...
Oh, and four hundred years ago a lot of what we now call science was in the realm of philosophy. | |
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| Can you grasp an idea? on 14:06 - Oct 22 with 1138 views | gordon |
| Can you grasp an idea? on 12:58 - Oct 22 by StokieBlue |
I think you're trying too hard now.
It's a metaphor.
The whole second paragraph is just silly, the last line especially is irrelevant.
SB |
I metaphor once. She thought I was simile, though. |  | | |
| Can you grasp an idea? on 14:10 - Oct 22 with 1128 views | StokieBlue |
| Can you grasp an idea? on 14:01 - Oct 22 by WeWereZombies |
That really is not a considered response, and I am deeply upset by your refusal to even try and understand a very basic point. I started my OP off with a bit of introductory humour and what I get back is this...
Oh, and four hundred years ago a lot of what we now call science was in the realm of philosophy. |
Apologies, perhaps I don't understand the point unless you mean just your title in which case it's a purely linguistic issue as pointed out. I don't see why the science has come into it.
Indeed it was considered overlapping 400 years ago, that has nothing to do with what my point was though.
SB [Post edited 22 Oct 2019 14:15]
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Can you grasp an idea? on 14:21 - Oct 22 with 1106 views | hoppy |
| Can you grasp an idea? on 13:36 - Oct 22 by Herbivore |
I wanted to punch him through the radio earlier. Utter bellend. He had no comprehension of the issues with the deal and seemed set on voting for it regardless of content. |
The one time reading on the advanced table view does have a slight flaw, when this comment follows a post which says “ Back on a less serious note, I'm concerned for Phil's wellbeing....” and you think there may have been a problem listening back to Life’s a Pitch... |  |
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| Can you grasp an idea? on 14:24 - Oct 22 with 1089 views | Herbivore |
| Can you grasp an idea? on 14:01 - Oct 22 by WeWereZombies |
That really is not a considered response, and I am deeply upset by your refusal to even try and understand a very basic point. I started my OP off with a bit of introductory humour and what I get back is this...
Oh, and four hundred years ago a lot of what we now call science was in the realm of philosophy. |
Can you give an example of what you consider to be an idea? | |
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| Can you grasp an idea? on 14:41 - Oct 22 with 1069 views | gordon |
| Can you grasp an idea? on 14:24 - Oct 22 by Herbivore |
Can you give an example of what you consider to be an idea? |
And what grasping it might entail? | | | |
| Can you grasp an idea? on 15:05 - Oct 22 with 1042 views | usm |
Dunno, Dude. |  |
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