| A repeat of diesel-gate? 09:32 - Sep 30 with 1050 views | StokieBlue |
This is really poor form from the global shipping industry. Spending a vast amount of money in order to circumvent the new environmental regulations rather than taking the spirit of the changes and doing whats needed.
https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/shipping-pollution-sea-open-loop-scrub
"Global shipping companies have spent billions rigging vessels with “cheat devices” that circumvent new environmental legislation by dumping pollution into the sea instead of the air.
More than $12bn (£9.7bn) has been spent on the devices, known as open-loop scrubbers, which extract sulphur from the exhaust fumes of ships that run on heavy fuel oil.
This means the vessels meet standards demanded by the International Maritime Organisation (IMO) that kick in on 1 January.
However, the sulphur emitted by the ships is simply re-routed from the exhaust and expelled into the water around the ships, which not only greatly increases the volume of pollutants being pumped into the sea, but also increases carbon dioxide emissions."
"The ICCT has estimated that cruise ships with scrubbers will consume around 4 million tons of heavy fuel oil in 2020 and will discharge 180 million tons of contaminated scrubber washwater overboard."
It's essentially the same issue which occurred with cars - any way possible to circumvent the regulation is better than try to actually change and meet them.
The regulations need to be tightened so the actual engines are made more efficient.
SB
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| A repeat of diesel-gate? on 09:41 - Sep 30 with 1008 views | davblue |
We really are screwed, people are just thinking about what can save them money, not what it does for the environment.
We don't deserve this planet. |  | | |
| A repeat of diesel-gate? on 09:43 - Sep 30 with 999 views | footers |
Did these companies not consider the huge fines levied on VW et al for doing the same thing? The message obviously isn't getting through, perhaps not severe enough punishments. |  |
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| A repeat of diesel-gate? on 10:02 - Sep 30 with 981 views | WeWereZombies |
Right, that's it. Next time I want to book a cruise I am going to walk instead!
Except I have never wanted to book a cruise....
it is a life style 'choice' in that people are suckered in to parting with a lot of money for a 'once in a lifetime' experience, see also weddings at historic house venues.
This thread could also incorporate this morning's vote buying attempt from Sajid Javid, twenty five billion pounds for road building when we need less impact on the environment. |  |
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| A repeat of diesel-gate? on 10:29 - Sep 30 with 945 views | Darth_Koont |
I have had a bit of experience working with this industry and the issues around these. As it should be, the pressure to cut emissions has been huge. But the move to more advanced and fuel-efficient engines and propulsion (as well as better fuels like LNG) has been thwarted by the reality of the size of the investment needed.
Simply installing scrubber technology on old equipment and old fuels is probably just 10% of the cost of doing it properly but there is no money for that. I think it's telling that so many have even gone for the open-loop systems and saved a further percentage point or two. Of course, that "loophole" (excuse the pun) to just pump out sulphur in a different way should have been closed earlier.
They're at the sharp end of an economic system where we don't want to pay extra for our cargo or our cruises. And shareholders want paid. So, like commercial air travel, it's a good example of how we'll need to re-think and re-work a lot of the values we take for granted because the technology and ease/cost of implementation just hasn't caught up to our ambition yet. With more emphasis on electrification, battery technology, alternative energy sources and an increasing public consciousness that is slowly changing consumer and business behaviour, we do at least seem to be making a start. Let's just hope that there's not too much lag and we can start accelerating the process. |  |
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| A repeat of diesel-gate? on 11:24 - Sep 30 with 878 views | WeWereZombies |
| A repeat of diesel-gate? on 10:29 - Sep 30 by Darth_Koont |
I have had a bit of experience working with this industry and the issues around these. As it should be, the pressure to cut emissions has been huge. But the move to more advanced and fuel-efficient engines and propulsion (as well as better fuels like LNG) has been thwarted by the reality of the size of the investment needed.
Simply installing scrubber technology on old equipment and old fuels is probably just 10% of the cost of doing it properly but there is no money for that. I think it's telling that so many have even gone for the open-loop systems and saved a further percentage point or two. Of course, that "loophole" (excuse the pun) to just pump out sulphur in a different way should have been closed earlier.
They're at the sharp end of an economic system where we don't want to pay extra for our cargo or our cruises. And shareholders want paid. So, like commercial air travel, it's a good example of how we'll need to re-think and re-work a lot of the values we take for granted because the technology and ease/cost of implementation just hasn't caught up to our ambition yet. With more emphasis on electrification, battery technology, alternative energy sources and an increasing public consciousness that is slowly changing consumer and business behaviour, we do at least seem to be making a start. Let's just hope that there's not too much lag and we can start accelerating the process. |
Interesting, and given your extra employment related knowledge, a valuable contribution to the thread.
I have an additional bit of personal experience to add in that, from the age of sixty two, having become an occassional yacht hand I know a little of what is possible and what is not possible under sail. So treading lightly on the Earth requires a lowering of immediate expectations to get to a less damaging and more fulfilling place. So too for sailing lightly on the seas (or flying lightly in the air - I did once apply to work for Airship Industries out at Cardington but they cut back and cancelled the post.) [Post edited 30 Sep 2019 11:29]
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| A repeat of diesel-gate? on 12:23 - Sep 30 with 832 views | Kievthegreat |
| A repeat of diesel-gate? on 09:43 - Sep 30 by footers |
Did these companies not consider the huge fines levied on VW et al for doing the same thing? The message obviously isn't getting through, perhaps not severe enough punishments. |
But they've not broken any laws and it's not really a diesel-gate.
This is an example of exploiting a loophole and being 'clever' (also massively immoral). It's fully compliant with the law as written. Car companies also exploit loopholes like this, although they are more cautious since Diesel-Gate.
VW though did not exploit a loophole, they designed their cars to provide false data to certifying authorities because the cars would behave in a false manner when tested. |  | | |
| A repeat of diesel-gate? on 12:30 - Sep 30 with 807 views | StokieBlue |
| A repeat of diesel-gate? on 12:23 - Sep 30 by Kievthegreat |
But they've not broken any laws and it's not really a diesel-gate.
This is an example of exploiting a loophole and being 'clever' (also massively immoral). It's fully compliant with the law as written. Car companies also exploit loopholes like this, although they are more cautious since Diesel-Gate.
VW though did not exploit a loophole, they designed their cars to provide false data to certifying authorities because the cars would behave in a false manner when tested. |
Technically correct but not as good subject line.
The regulations need to be tighter but the way they have circumvented the issue by shifting the pollution from the air to the sea isn't ideal.
Obviously it's hard to retrofit all vessels but it should still be highlighted that the sulphur is still causing pollution - the problem is not fixed.
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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