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The tragic side of gambling 10:09 - Sep 18 with 10051 viewsBrixtonBlue

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-49687500

Everything about this story is absolutely awful.

I bet Bloots will downarrow this.
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The tragic side of gambling on 16:04 - Sep 18 with 3787 viewsStokieBlue

The tragic side of gambling on 16:00 - Sep 18 by J2BLUE

Lets agree to disagree. If you think those are the same level then we have nothing more to say to each other.


Sure.

I will reiterate though, nobody was promoting it as something someone should do.

SB

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The tragic side of gambling on 16:06 - Sep 18 with 3781 viewsSpruceMoose

The tragic side of gambling on 16:04 - Sep 18 by StokieBlue

Sure.

I will reiterate though, nobody was promoting it as something someone should do.

SB


Let's be honest, there's only a few of us on here who are rich enough to do it.

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The tragic side of gambling on 16:08 - Sep 18 with 3776 viewsJ2BLUE

The tragic side of gambling on 16:04 - Sep 18 by StokieBlue

Sure.

I will reiterate though, nobody was promoting it as something someone should do.

SB


When you are young and impressionable it actually sounds quite reasonable. I think that is why we dismissed it so strongly. I was just surprised to see people on here, who generally hate gambling, explain that it would work in an ideal situation.

The idea is dangerous. You are factually correct but i've seen people attempt it even after people have strongly warned them off. I'm sure Ryorry has as well. It doesn't end well.

Truly impaired.
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The tragic side of gambling on 16:09 - Sep 18 with 3771 viewsRyorry

The tragic side of gambling on 15:55 - Sep 18 by StokieBlue

I am sure she did understand but she was mixing up situational variables with purely mathematical variables hence my post.

Nobody is advocating that someone should attempt to prove this theory in the real world. Nobody is promoting it as a viable strategy.

I don't really understand your attitude on this point. You are essentially saying abstract thought shouldn't be voiced on certain subjects. Should we not discuss the probability of Ipswich winning their next match in case someone decides to gamble based on that information?

SB


Not sure why you're still not grasping that my replies were to *Oldsmoker's first post*, not to replies of yours and Weekenders which were your own personal takes interpreting his post as purely theoretical.

Given that & footers reply to J2 which makes no acknowledgement of J2s numerous previous posts over the years that what he does is actually not gambling but matched betting (two entirely different things), you've just underlined my frequently expressed view re how few posters on here actually ever read properly (or maybe understand) what some other posters have said, despite them reitering numerous times.

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The tragic side of gambling on 16:10 - Sep 18 with 3766 viewsclive_baker

The tragic side of gambling on 15:40 - Sep 18 by Weekender

Slight overreaction.

Its up to the forum to decide the direction of a conversation. SB and I just corrected Ryorry's misunderstanding.


Nobody has misunderstood anything. It's quite obvious if you had even odds and doubled up every time then at some point you would win and break even, in theory. In the same way a monkey at a typewriter would re-write the works of Shakespeare given an infinite amount of time.

The point that's being made, quite correctly, is the reality of gambling sites and casino's is that they have table limits, and punters have limits due to a finite amount of funds that sits in our bank accounts. It's a wholly irresponsible 'strategy' to promote. I don't think anyone needs elementary mathematics explaining to them, that's not the issue here!

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The tragic side of gambling on 16:11 - Sep 18 with 3763 viewsSpruceMoose

The tragic side of gambling on 16:08 - Sep 18 by J2BLUE

When you are young and impressionable it actually sounds quite reasonable. I think that is why we dismissed it so strongly. I was just surprised to see people on here, who generally hate gambling, explain that it would work in an ideal situation.

The idea is dangerous. You are factually correct but i've seen people attempt it even after people have strongly warned them off. I'm sure Ryorry has as well. It doesn't end well.


Surely following that line of though to it's conclusion would lead one to think that any discussion of gambling on here at all should be discouraged?

Not saying that's my position btw, I just find it an odd one for you to put forward.

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The tragic side of gambling on 16:11 - Sep 18 with 3759 viewsJ2BLUE

The tragic side of gambling on 16:09 - Sep 18 by Ryorry

Not sure why you're still not grasping that my replies were to *Oldsmoker's first post*, not to replies of yours and Weekenders which were your own personal takes interpreting his post as purely theoretical.

Given that & footers reply to J2 which makes no acknowledgement of J2s numerous previous posts over the years that what he does is actually not gambling but matched betting (two entirely different things), you've just underlined my frequently expressed view re how few posters on here actually ever read properly (or maybe understand) what some other posters have said, despite them reitering numerous times.


I do actual gambling as well now. Which is how I make the majority of my money. Matched betting is the minor component now.

But yes, in the past several years it has been true that the vast majority of the time I was only matched betting.

Truly impaired.
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The tragic side of gambling on 16:12 - Sep 18 with 3756 viewsRyorry

The tragic side of gambling on 16:10 - Sep 18 by clive_baker

Nobody has misunderstood anything. It's quite obvious if you had even odds and doubled up every time then at some point you would win and break even, in theory. In the same way a monkey at a typewriter would re-write the works of Shakespeare given an infinite amount of time.

The point that's being made, quite correctly, is the reality of gambling sites and casino's is that they have table limits, and punters have limits due to a finite amount of funds that sits in our bank accounts. It's a wholly irresponsible 'strategy' to promote. I don't think anyone needs elementary mathematics explaining to them, that's not the issue here!


Thank you Clive_Baker!

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The tragic side of gambling on 16:13 - Sep 18 with 3750 viewsRyorry

The tragic side of gambling on 16:11 - Sep 18 by J2BLUE

I do actual gambling as well now. Which is how I make the majority of my money. Matched betting is the minor component now.

But yes, in the past several years it has been true that the vast majority of the time I was only matched betting.


Ah, apologies on that score then!

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The tragic side of gambling on 16:14 - Sep 18 with 3746 viewsfooters

The tragic side of gambling on 16:09 - Sep 18 by Ryorry

Not sure why you're still not grasping that my replies were to *Oldsmoker's first post*, not to replies of yours and Weekenders which were your own personal takes interpreting his post as purely theoretical.

Given that & footers reply to J2 which makes no acknowledgement of J2s numerous previous posts over the years that what he does is actually not gambling but matched betting (two entirely different things), you've just underlined my frequently expressed view re how few posters on here actually ever read properly (or maybe understand) what some other posters have said, despite them reitering numerous times.


I'm well aware of matched betting, cheers, which is why I mentioned it in the previous post to J2. His initial post on this thread was about actual gambling, tho, which is why I made the distinction.

You'll have to forgive me that I don't have the time to read and remember all these v interesting gambling threads, but I am a very busy man.

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The tragic side of gambling on 16:15 - Sep 18 with 3733 viewsStokieBlue

The tragic side of gambling on 16:10 - Sep 18 by clive_baker

Nobody has misunderstood anything. It's quite obvious if you had even odds and doubled up every time then at some point you would win and break even, in theory. In the same way a monkey at a typewriter would re-write the works of Shakespeare given an infinite amount of time.

The point that's being made, quite correctly, is the reality of gambling sites and casino's is that they have table limits, and punters have limits due to a finite amount of funds that sits in our bank accounts. It's a wholly irresponsible 'strategy' to promote. I don't think anyone needs elementary mathematics explaining to them, that's not the issue here!


Who was promoting it?

I certainly wasn't.

SB

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The tragic side of gambling on 16:16 - Sep 18 with 3734 viewsJ2BLUE

The tragic side of gambling on 16:11 - Sep 18 by SpruceMoose

Surely following that line of though to it's conclusion would lead one to think that any discussion of gambling on here at all should be discouraged?

Not saying that's my position btw, I just find it an odd one for you to put forward.


I think there is a big difference between usual gambling chat and the promotion of a can't lose system*. 99%+ of the gambling chat on here is about sports which I consider to be like beer where as ideas like this/casino games are like spirits. If someone posts about having a beer or two you wouldn't bat an eyelid. If they posted about drinking a bottle of vodka a day it would be quite concerning. That's the way I look at it, rightly or wrongly.

*I appreciate that hasn't happened here but it could be interpreted like that and that's why it got such a strong reaction.

Truly impaired.
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The tragic side of gambling on 16:26 - Sep 18 with 3704 viewsWeekender

The tragic side of gambling on 16:15 - Sep 18 by StokieBlue

Who was promoting it?

I certainly wasn't.

SB


Nor me. Several have read something that ins't there.

SB and I are still correct, mathematically it holds. Of course there are real world limits that would mean it wouldn't, i've not and don't dispute that.

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The tragic side of gambling on 16:34 - Sep 18 with 3668 viewsWeekender

The tragic side of gambling on 16:10 - Sep 18 by clive_baker

Nobody has misunderstood anything. It's quite obvious if you had even odds and doubled up every time then at some point you would win and break even, in theory. In the same way a monkey at a typewriter would re-write the works of Shakespeare given an infinite amount of time.

The point that's being made, quite correctly, is the reality of gambling sites and casino's is that they have table limits, and punters have limits due to a finite amount of funds that sits in our bank accounts. It's a wholly irresponsible 'strategy' to promote. I don't think anyone needs elementary mathematics explaining to them, that's not the issue here!


I agree it would be a a wholly irresponsible 'strategy' to promote. I certainly wouldn't do so.

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The tragic side of gambling on 16:35 - Sep 18 with 3657 viewsOldsmoker

The tragic side of gambling on 16:03 - Sep 18 by WeWereZombies

Didn't that get made into a film? Or a film was based on the premise, anyway I want to back up J2 and Ryorry in their dismissal of Weekender's assertion (yes, the forum's most anti-gambling poster is prepared to side with a professional gambler and someone who knows her horses). This attempt to win back losses through betting on favourites (using that information alone) can never work because the odds are in the bookies favour. And a bookie who rigged their odds in the punter's favour would not last long.
[Post edited 18 Sep 2019 16:39]


The hole-in-one ruse is the only example I know where the bookies got it wrong. Nowadays, they never get it wrong.
When Leicester won the Premier League some punters were quoted as much as 250-1 at the start of the season. They never offer those odds anymore not even for newly promoted clubs.
The odds are rigged against the punter all the time.

Don't believe a word I say. I'm only kidding. Or am I?
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The tragic side of gambling on 16:51 - Sep 18 with 3607 viewsWeWereZombies

The tragic side of gambling on 16:35 - Sep 18 by Oldsmoker

The hole-in-one ruse is the only example I know where the bookies got it wrong. Nowadays, they never get it wrong.
When Leicester won the Premier League some punters were quoted as much as 250-1 at the start of the season. They never offer those odds anymore not even for newly promoted clubs.
The odds are rigged against the punter all the time.


I think I was thinking of '21':

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/21_(2008_film)

It is based on a book that seems to inhabit a shadow world between fiction and reality:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bringing_Down_the_House_(book)

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The tragic side of gambling on 16:54 - Sep 18 with 3599 viewsJ2BLUE

The tragic side of gambling on 16:51 - Sep 18 by WeWereZombies

I think I was thinking of '21':

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/21_(2008_film)

It is based on a book that seems to inhabit a shadow world between fiction and reality:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bringing_Down_the_House_(book)


I loved reading that book.

Truly impaired.
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Same here, great read (n/t) on 16:58 - Sep 18 with 3583 viewsDyland

The tragic side of gambling on 16:54 - Sep 18 by J2BLUE

I loved reading that book.



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The tragic side of gambling on 17:11 - Sep 18 with 3570 viewsRyorry

The tragic side of gambling on 16:14 - Sep 18 by footers

I'm well aware of matched betting, cheers, which is why I mentioned it in the previous post to J2. His initial post on this thread was about actual gambling, tho, which is why I made the distinction.

You'll have to forgive me that I don't have the time to read and remember all these v interesting gambling threads, but I am a very busy man.


I did apologise for the matched betting+gambling thing a couple of posts higher up, but just in case you still haven't seen it (bearing in mind something you said in one of the posts that got deleted)



Btw, I know this is risky! but I think you once said you worked on a trading floor? Isn't that also a form of betting and gambling?
[Post edited 18 Sep 2019 17:15]

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The tragic side of gambling on 17:30 - Sep 18 with 3543 viewsWeWereZombies

The tragic side of gambling on 17:11 - Sep 18 by Ryorry

I did apologise for the matched betting+gambling thing a couple of posts higher up, but just in case you still haven't seen it (bearing in mind something you said in one of the posts that got deleted)



Btw, I know this is risky! but I think you once said you worked on a trading floor? Isn't that also a form of betting and gambling?
[Post edited 18 Sep 2019 17:15]


It might be interesting if someone could build a scale of risk/reward/delivery of social good from gambling through matched betting (and if someone could explain the difference I would be much obliged) and then futures, options, investing in shares, investing in fixed interest vehicles, interest bearing bank accounts, what the feck no one told me the Post Office Investment Account has gone and ending with the time value loss of keeping your money in a MarkTWTD themed piggy bank.

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The tragic side of gambling on 17:32 - Sep 18 with 3542 viewsFunge

The tragic side of gambling on 15:32 - Sep 18 by J2BLUE

What the hell is going on here? Me and Ryorry have been attacked for years on here for 'promoting' gambling. We've both seen endless variations of that 'strategy' and are trying to be crystal clear that it's a terrible idea in the real world People then reply arguing that it would work with an endless time scale, endless bankroll and a bookie which would take bets without limit. Well no sh1t.

You can't win on here sometimes. Sorry for the rant but I would have thought the forum would be more interested in making the real world consequences clear (given the reputation of gambling and previous accusations) than promoting a 'thought exercise'.
[Post edited 18 Sep 2019 15:32]


Quite.
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The tragic side of gambling on 17:45 - Sep 18 with 3523 viewsfooters

The tragic side of gambling on 17:11 - Sep 18 by Ryorry

I did apologise for the matched betting+gambling thing a couple of posts higher up, but just in case you still haven't seen it (bearing in mind something you said in one of the posts that got deleted)



Btw, I know this is risky! but I think you once said you worked on a trading floor? Isn't that also a form of betting and gambling?
[Post edited 18 Sep 2019 17:15]


I do work on a trading floor, but I also gamble myself and have no real moral problem with it, besides its prevalence in British society and the harm it does to *some* people.

The thing is, most people who trade with us are either institutional investors or millionaires themselves. It's just people who've got nothing to lose that I worry about, which is why I also do try to dissuade the normal man on the street from getting into forex trading, for example.

If you don't know anything about it, don't do it. There's no such thing as a free lunch!

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The tragic side of gambling on 18:17 - Sep 18 with 3559 viewshenley07

The tragic side of gambling on 10:21 - Sep 18 by J2BLUE

Horrible story and sadly all too easy. My mate has placed a few small winning bets with Coral and went to put some on a 4/1 shot last night and was limited to 50p. If he had lost £50,000 in a week to them they would have let him have anything he wants on.

It is a toxic and corrupt industry without a doubt.


Yes it's s sad ,but common story. However had to laugh at this claim of a bookie only prepared to lay 4's for 50p. I think you may have forgotten some zeros matey
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The tragic side of gambling on 18:22 - Sep 18 with 3553 viewsJ2BLUE

The tragic side of gambling on 18:17 - Sep 18 by henley07

Yes it's s sad ,but common story. However had to laugh at this claim of a bookie only prepared to lay 4's for 50p. I think you may have forgotten some zeros matey


I certainly haven't forgotten any zeros. This was last night. Coral. Mane to have 2+ shots on target. They allowed him £0.50 on which he did place and got a payout of £2.50.

I have been limited to similar amounts by Ladbrokes, Bet Bright and others so not sure why it's so hard to believe for you.

Truly impaired.
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The tragic side of gambling on 18:28 - Sep 18 with 3542 viewsThe_Romford_Blue

The tragic side of gambling on 15:52 - Sep 18 by footers

J2, serious question and real talk now (please don't get angry with me!). Given your excellent, informed post on the dangers of gambling on page one, can I ask how or why you persist with wanting to make a living out of it? You obviously know the dangers.

Is it because it's just a temporary thing, or is your system genuinely not gambling, ie assured through matched betting? Genuinely curious.


Interesting thread this.

One thing I will say is the posts about gambling being a mugs game only applies to a certain number of people. Some people can develop systems to overcome the bookies.

I have a system for one sport and one event a week that is well into 4 figures (potentially a grand or two off five figures now) profit over the last five years. The problem I had was I liked the fun of betting on random football games on TV for interest. I could make £150 on my system bet quite comfortably (11 weeks in 13 it made £100+ a week profit at one point two years ago) but would lose a heap of my profits over the next few days betting on Brighton v Watford on a Monday night Sky game. Which is the mug element.

I have a system I created a year ago for the Caribbean cricket on Sky which runs every year in September. I haven’t shared the system with anyone but it’s a formula and system I created myself and I share the results and selections before every game on my snapchat (some on twitter). That system, as expected, has made over £300 since the competition started with 10 winners from the 14 matches. That’s a system that is smart betting - not mug punting. I no longer do any football betting other than my trial Ipswich system bet and one £5 accumulator a week with my mate.

Nowadays, over the last 18 months, I cut out the mug bets. I’ve backed one horse midweek that wasn’t on a big meeting in the last 3 months (Platform Nineteen at 11/8 which won at 4/6 ages ago).

Finally, I agree it’s disgraceful that accounts are shut down for any of us in profit and I’m limited to friends accounts with a few bookies and Betfair exchange. 4 bookmakers have blocked me entirely from Romford Greyhound Betting which is absolutely their call. Because it’s my angle. If I was losing, they’d let me continue. That is wrong and should be sorted out. Thankfully, Betfair Exchange is at least punter versus punter so getting a bet on is possible.

Also worth noting, I list all of my bets now to analyse at the end of the quarter year to see if there’s stuff to change/stop. Writing your bets down is something Taxi (I think) told me I should do and he was correct. It highlights the mug punting and makes you cut it out.

Gambling is a mugs game but it doesn’t have to be if you are disciplined and know what you are doing. Like J2 rightly said, I wouldn’t tell an 18 year old to get an account and get into it now unless they create an actual profitable system on something and know what they are doing. To be in the 2% of punters who won’t lose is something that has taken me a few years to do but it’s nice to now be able to genuinely say I’m there. All for doing something I enjoy. It’s NOT ALWAYS a mugs game is the point here. But nobody should start betting expecting to be a winner unless they have a system in place to suggest otherwise.

Good thread TWTD.

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