| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit 15:32 - Sep 4 with 6881 views | Herbivore |
And in particular whether it is actually something the public supports (the short answer is that it isn't). Also sheds light on why Alexander de Pfeffel Johnson is so desperate to blame the EU for a no deal, it makes it an easier sell: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49551893 |  |
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| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 15:39 - Sep 4 with 3055 views | clive_baker |
Remarkable that 11% of remain voters in 2016 haven't just softened to Brexit, but softened sufficiently that they're supportive of leaving with no deal at all. Wonder if that's just Brexit fatigue and a case of 'whatever, just get it done with'. |  |
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| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 15:47 - Sep 4 with 3028 views | factual_blue |
| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 15:39 - Sep 4 by clive_baker |
Remarkable that 11% of remain voters in 2016 haven't just softened to Brexit, but softened sufficiently that they're supportive of leaving with no deal at all. Wonder if that's just Brexit fatigue and a case of 'whatever, just get it done with'. |
That people want something so momentous to stop being in the news just because they're bored of it is a sad indictment of modern attention spans. I blame twitbook, the defenestration of Prague, and Peggy Mount.
But not necessarily in that order. |  |
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| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 16:08 - Sep 4 with 2985 views | itfcjoe |
| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 15:39 - Sep 4 by clive_baker |
Remarkable that 11% of remain voters in 2016 haven't just softened to Brexit, but softened sufficiently that they're supportive of leaving with no deal at all. Wonder if that's just Brexit fatigue and a case of 'whatever, just get it done with'. |
You'd think the just get it done attitude would have them just wanting to cancel it and get on with things |  |
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| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 16:08 - Sep 4 with 2981 views | jaykay |
strange how these right wingers, alexander, jaccob william and stephen christopher like to be known by their other or made up names , to seem as ordinary joes |  |
| forensic experts say footers and spruces fingerprints were not found at the scene after the weekends rows |
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| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 16:11 - Sep 4 with 2970 views | Herbivore |
| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 16:08 - Sep 4 by jaykay |
strange how these right wingers, alexander, jaccob william and stephen christopher like to be known by their other or made up names , to seem as ordinary joes |
Gideon too, of course. | |
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| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 16:24 - Sep 4 with 2934 views | Darth_Koont |
| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 15:39 - Sep 4 by clive_baker |
Remarkable that 11% of remain voters in 2016 haven't just softened to Brexit, but softened sufficiently that they're supportive of leaving with no deal at all. Wonder if that's just Brexit fatigue and a case of 'whatever, just get it done with'. |
Most certainly.
You hear people constantly talking about getting Brexit over and done with. I wonder how many of them understand that if we leave we'll be entering a state of perma-Brexit with negotiations for the next 5-10 years. And likely Brexit recriminations for the next 20.
Brexit is hugely important, of course, but it's in danger of swamping the country. The only way to end it before it does that is to remain. If people want to continue their struggle to Take Back Control, they can concentrate on reforming the EU and our relationship from within or at least properly working out what the exit plan is.
What is inescapable so far is that the chief proponents of Brexit have no plan or at least no plan that is in the country's interests. |  |
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| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 16:27 - Sep 4 with 2924 views | DanTheMan |
| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 16:24 - Sep 4 by Darth_Koont |
Most certainly.
You hear people constantly talking about getting Brexit over and done with. I wonder how many of them understand that if we leave we'll be entering a state of perma-Brexit with negotiations for the next 5-10 years. And likely Brexit recriminations for the next 20.
Brexit is hugely important, of course, but it's in danger of swamping the country. The only way to end it before it does that is to remain. If people want to continue their struggle to Take Back Control, they can concentrate on reforming the EU and our relationship from within or at least properly working out what the exit plan is.
What is inescapable so far is that the chief proponents of Brexit have no plan or at least no plan that is in the country's interests. |
"You hear people constantly talking about getting Brexit over and done with. I wonder how many of them understand that if we leave we'll be entering a state of perma-Brexit with negotiations for the next 5-10 years. And likely Brexit recriminations for the next 20."
This is a pet peeve of mine. Politics and trade are not a form of entertainment. There are not supposed to be interesting, so the fact you find them boring is neither here nor there.
And as you say, this is just the withdrawal bill! Imagine the fun when we actually have to start the proper negotiations. |  |
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| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 16:30 - Sep 4 with 2902 views | Guthrum |
| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 15:39 - Sep 4 by clive_baker |
Remarkable that 11% of remain voters in 2016 haven't just softened to Brexit, but softened sufficiently that they're supportive of leaving with no deal at all. Wonder if that's just Brexit fatigue and a case of 'whatever, just get it done with'. |
Or whether they're lying about which way they voted in 2016. There is, after all, no way of checking up on that.
People who are so sick of Brexit they are now happy to leave with no deal are akin to someone who can't decide what shoes they should wear opting to cut their feet off. |  |
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| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 16:32 - Sep 4 with 2896 views | Kievthegreat |
| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 15:47 - Sep 4 by factual_blue |
That people want something so momentous to stop being in the news just because they're bored of it is a sad indictment of modern attention spans. I blame twitbook, the defenestration of Prague, and Peggy Mount.
But not necessarily in that order. |
The first, the second or the third defenestration?
Edit: Forgot how many defenestrations there were. [Post edited 4 Sep 2019 16:34]
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| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 16:37 - Sep 4 with 2874 views | homer_123 |
| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 15:47 - Sep 4 by factual_blue |
That people want something so momentous to stop being in the news just because they're bored of it is a sad indictment of modern attention spans. I blame twitbook, the defenestration of Prague, and Peggy Mount.
But not necessarily in that order. |
You have a point there Facters.
But is the frustration more down to the fact that whilst the populous made a choice (i.e. we voted in a referendum - putting to one side the issues with having one in the first place and/ or how it was run) Parliament hasn't delivered on it and still seems utterly incapable of doing so.
We are still at an impasse - even (if not more so) after yesterday. |  |
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| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 16:40 - Sep 4 with 2868 views | homer_123 |
Time, surely, to go back to the public with a binding vote that Parliament 'must' deliver.
1. Leave on May's Deal
2. Leave with No Deal
3. Remain in the EU
Parliament is still stymied - we are still no closer to getting a decision (one way of another) and this looks set to continue.
A GE won't solve it. Nor will the Brexit Delay Bill.
We must, surely, be at a point where we have to accept that our MPs cannot make a decision and therefore, it must go back to the populous? | |
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| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 16:41 - Sep 4 with 2845 views | clive_baker |
| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 15:47 - Sep 4 by factual_blue |
That people want something so momentous to stop being in the news just because they're bored of it is a sad indictment of modern attention spans. I blame twitbook, the defenestration of Prague, and Peggy Mount.
But not necessarily in that order. |
I never knew there were once Forests in Prague. | |
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| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 16:45 - Sep 4 with 2827 views | factual_blue |
| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 16:41 - Sep 4 by clive_baker |
I never knew there were once Forests in Prague. |
Defenestration = throwing people out of windows.
The 1419 incident in Prague was when it all went wrong. | |
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| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 16:46 - Sep 4 with 2812 views | homer_123 |
| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 16:45 - Sep 4 by factual_blue |
Defenestration = throwing people out of windows.
The 1419 incident in Prague was when it all went wrong. |
That's a very specific time of the day - I've not seen any reports of this happening in Prague given it was only a couple of hours ago. | |
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| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 16:46 - Sep 4 with 2818 views | Steve_M |
This is also worth reading, explains why things are such a mess: neither May or Johnson have really been prepared to deal with the compromises that Brexit requires.
https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/magazine/peter-foster-brexit-longread
May did eventually but only having boxed herself in with incompatible red lines which lead to the fudge of the original deal. |  |
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| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 16:47 - Sep 4 with 2803 views | factual_blue |
| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 16:32 - Sep 4 by Kievthegreat |
The first, the second or the third defenestration?
Edit: Forgot how many defenestrations there were. [Post edited 4 Sep 2019 16:34]
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Depends if you count Jan Masaryk's 'suicide' in 1948. | |
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| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 16:47 - Sep 4 with 2805 views | Herbivore |
| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 16:40 - Sep 4 by homer_123 |
Time, surely, to go back to the public with a binding vote that Parliament 'must' deliver.
1. Leave on May's Deal
2. Leave with No Deal
3. Remain in the EU
Parliament is still stymied - we are still no closer to getting a decision (one way of another) and this looks set to continue.
A GE won't solve it. Nor will the Brexit Delay Bill.
We must, surely, be at a point where we have to accept that our MPs cannot make a decision and therefore, it must go back to the populous? |
I agree but it won't happen as I think both the Tories and Labour want a GE and will see that as a way of resolving the impasse. For Labour the motivation is to get power from the Tories. For the Tories it is to try to win back a majority. The problem is that you can't use a FPTP general election as a proxy referendum as a party can win a comfortable parliamentary majority without coming close to a popular majority. | |
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| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 16:48 - Sep 4 with 2803 views | clive_baker |
| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 16:45 - Sep 4 by factual_blue |
Defenestration = throwing people out of windows.
The 1419 incident in Prague was when it all went wrong. |
I was joking.
Also, Guthrum you have a point re. people being economical with the truth. I propose all voting history should be made publicly available on an online database from this moment forth. I'm sure they would be more reflective of the polls if the anonymity of the polling booth was removed from the equation. | |
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| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 16:48 - Sep 4 with 2799 views | factual_blue |
| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 16:46 - Sep 4 by homer_123 |
That's a very specific time of the day - I've not seen any reports of this happening in Prague given it was only a couple of hours ago. |
Well, they've got that fancy clock, so that helps. | |
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| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 16:50 - Sep 4 with 2792 views | Guthrum |
| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 16:45 - Sep 4 by factual_blue |
Defenestration = throwing people out of windows.
The 1419 incident in Prague was when it all went wrong. |
Ah, those brazen Hussites! | |
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| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 16:51 - Sep 4 with 2797 views | clive_baker |
| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 16:40 - Sep 4 by homer_123 |
Time, surely, to go back to the public with a binding vote that Parliament 'must' deliver.
1. Leave on May's Deal
2. Leave with No Deal
3. Remain in the EU
Parliament is still stymied - we are still no closer to getting a decision (one way of another) and this looks set to continue.
A GE won't solve it. Nor will the Brexit Delay Bill.
We must, surely, be at a point where we have to accept that our MPs cannot make a decision and therefore, it must go back to the populous? |
Splitting the leave vote isn't an option, as much as I would love that. I think it needs to go back to the public with 2 options:
1) Remain
2) Leave without a deal
It can be positioned as 'we listened to the mandate to pursue Brexit which we've done. There's no workable 'deal' so we're left with no deal or no Brexit. The will of the people will be honoured in this 2nd referendum. Remain would win. We can all move on with our lives. | |
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| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 16:53 - Sep 4 with 2785 views | DanTheMan |
| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 16:47 - Sep 4 by Herbivore |
I agree but it won't happen as I think both the Tories and Labour want a GE and will see that as a way of resolving the impasse. For Labour the motivation is to get power from the Tories. For the Tories it is to try to win back a majority. The problem is that you can't use a FPTP general election as a proxy referendum as a party can win a comfortable parliamentary majority without coming close to a popular majority. |
Agreed. And if there was a referendum we would need to deal with the fact people should be able to vote for their best to worst options. So some form of AV.
We'd probably end up with leaving with May's deal. Or at least a deal. | |
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| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 17:01 - Sep 4 with 2761 views | Kievthegreat |
| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 16:50 - Sep 4 by Guthrum |
Ah, those brazen Hussites! |
At least they killed their targets. The 5 minutes to 4 lot couldn't even manage that and they only had 3 people to chuck! | | | |
| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 17:04 - Sep 4 with 2750 views | Kievthegreat |
| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 16:47 - Sep 4 by factual_blue |
Depends if you count Jan Masaryk's 'suicide' in 1948. |
Fine 4 defenestrations. Must admit it's a fun way to kill you're enemies. Beheading is just a bit blaise.
Unless it's the 3rd defenestration in which case try a floor or 2 higher. | | | |
| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 17:08 - Sep 4 with 2741 views | Herbivore |
| Interesting piece on no deal Brexit on 16:53 - Sep 4 by DanTheMan |
Agreed. And if there was a referendum we would need to deal with the fact people should be able to vote for their best to worst options. So some form of AV.
We'd probably end up with leaving with May's deal. Or at least a deal. |
Nah, we'd end up remaining. May's deal is the least popular option so would be eliminated. Those voting for May's deal as first preference would be split to some degree between remain and no deal as their second preference but I'd expect remain to be the most popular first choice option and so to get comfortably over 50% with the deal supporters' second choice votes. | |
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