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Boris and his Purdah plan 13:47 - Aug 12 with 1971 viewsBrixtonBlue

Is this right?

The Cabinet Office imposes Purdah before elections. This is a period of roughly six weeks in which Government Departments are not allowed to communicate with members of the public about any new or controversial Government initiatives (such as modernisation initiatives, and administrative and legislative changes).

By calling for a snap general election while October the 31st is within 6 weeks, Boris can effectively prevent opposition to a no-deal Brexit from discussing, or even tabling new legislation, all while avoiding negative press about this particular issue.

So he can push through a no-deal without anyone being able to stop him, simply by calling an election 6 weeks before the 31st October?!

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Boris and his Purdah plan on 14:11 - Aug 12 with 1427 viewsGuthrum

Arguably it works the other way, that the Government cannot do something as significant as taking the UK out of the EU without a deal during the purdah period.

Legally a very grey area, about which there is considerable debate

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Boris and his Purdah plan on 14:14 - Aug 12 with 1418 viewsBrixtonBlue

Boris and his Purdah plan on 14:11 - Aug 12 by Guthrum

Arguably it works the other way, that the Government cannot do something as significant as taking the UK out of the EU without a deal during the purdah period.

Legally a very grey area, about which there is considerable debate


But Brexit is already happening. We ARE out on the 31st if nothing else happens?

As I understand it new stuff can't happen under Purdah, but Brexit isn't new.

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Boris and his Purdah plan on 14:20 - Aug 12 with 1400 viewsGuthrum

Boris and his Purdah plan on 14:14 - Aug 12 by BrixtonBlue

But Brexit is already happening. We ARE out on the 31st if nothing else happens?

As I understand it new stuff can't happen under Purdah, but Brexit isn't new.


But it would still effectively be tying the hands of a future administration. Very bad form. The reasonable thing (which the EU have previously indicated they would be unlikely to refuse) would be to obtain an extension until after the election.

However, this mostly comes down to convention rather than hard-and-fast rules. Nobody has tried to do it like this before. Essentially, both sides are desperately looking for loopholes to obtain their desired outcomes.

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Boris and his Purdah plan on 14:25 - Aug 12 with 1379 viewsBrixtonBlue

Boris and his Purdah plan on 14:20 - Aug 12 by Guthrum

But it would still effectively be tying the hands of a future administration. Very bad form. The reasonable thing (which the EU have previously indicated they would be unlikely to refuse) would be to obtain an extension until after the election.

However, this mostly comes down to convention rather than hard-and-fast rules. Nobody has tried to do it like this before. Essentially, both sides are desperately looking for loopholes to obtain their desired outcomes.


"But it would still effectively be tying the hands of a future administration. Very bad form."

Indeed. But if that's the rule, what's to stop him? I'm hoping there's some 'special circumstances' clause to stop the white haired buffoon... which is why I posed the OP.

On the face of it, unless someone knows different, Purdah is the loophole he needs.

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Boris and his Purdah plan on 14:28 - Aug 12 with 1366 viewsStokieBlue

He can't call an election without the agreement of parliament though.

So in this situation Labour would have to agree to having an election which means they are allowing a no-deal Brexit to happen because they want to get in power which won't play well to many and likely result in them not getting into power.

It would actually be a clever thing to do from his perspective as he puts everyone else in a really bad position.

For the country though, it's an awful thing to do but why would anyone expect anything less from Boris?

The only thing that really matters to Boris, is Boris.

SB

“You may not feel outstandingly robust, but if you are an average-sized adult you will contain within your modest frame no less than 7 X 10^18 joules of potential energy—enough to explode with the force of thirty very large hydrogen bombs, assuming you knew how to liberate it and really wished to make a point."

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Boris and his Purdah plan on 14:33 - Aug 12 with 1349 viewsSteve_M

Boris and his Purdah plan on 14:28 - Aug 12 by StokieBlue

He can't call an election without the agreement of parliament though.

So in this situation Labour would have to agree to having an election which means they are allowing a no-deal Brexit to happen because they want to get in power which won't play well to many and likely result in them not getting into power.

It would actually be a clever thing to do from his perspective as he puts everyone else in a really bad position.

For the country though, it's an awful thing to do but why would anyone expect anything less from Boris?

The only thing that really matters to Boris, is Boris.

SB


"The only thing that really matters to Boris, is Boris."

Which is why I'm not persuaded that he will call an early election, why scheme for years to get a job and then risk it straight away.

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Boris and his Purdah plan on 14:38 - Aug 12 with 1333 viewsBrixtonBlue

Boris and his Purdah plan on 14:28 - Aug 12 by StokieBlue

He can't call an election without the agreement of parliament though.

So in this situation Labour would have to agree to having an election which means they are allowing a no-deal Brexit to happen because they want to get in power which won't play well to many and likely result in them not getting into power.

It would actually be a clever thing to do from his perspective as he puts everyone else in a really bad position.

For the country though, it's an awful thing to do but why would anyone expect anything less from Boris?

The only thing that really matters to Boris, is Boris.

SB


"He can't call an election without the agreement of parliament though."

With the DUP he already has a majority though? Wouldn't it rely on some Tories defecting?

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Boris and his Purdah plan on 14:44 - Aug 12 with 1309 viewsStokieBlue

Boris and his Purdah plan on 14:38 - Aug 12 by BrixtonBlue

"He can't call an election without the agreement of parliament though."

With the DUP he already has a majority though? Wouldn't it rely on some Tories defecting?


You need 2/3 of parliament to agree in order to circumvent the Fixed term parliament act.

Either that or a vote of no confidence and if that happens then it would have also been Labour who forced the issue as they are the only ones who can really call it.

SB
[Post edited 12 Aug 14:44]

“You may not feel outstandingly robust, but if you are an average-sized adult you will contain within your modest frame no less than 7 X 10^18 joules of potential energy—enough to explode with the force of thirty very large hydrogen bombs, assuming you knew how to liberate it and really wished to make a point."

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Boris and his Purdah plan on 14:50 - Aug 12 with 1280 viewsBrixtonBlue

Boris and his Purdah plan on 14:44 - Aug 12 by StokieBlue

You need 2/3 of parliament to agree in order to circumvent the Fixed term parliament act.

Either that or a vote of no confidence and if that happens then it would have also been Labour who forced the issue as they are the only ones who can really call it.

SB
[Post edited 12 Aug 14:44]


I guess we'll find out soon enough.

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Boris and his Purdah plan on 14:54 - Aug 12 with 1260 viewsStokieBlue

Boris and his Purdah plan on 14:50 - Aug 12 by BrixtonBlue

I guess we'll find out soon enough.


Indeed.

It's a total mess whatever way it goes.

SB

“You may not feel outstandingly robust, but if you are an average-sized adult you will contain within your modest frame no less than 7 X 10^18 joules of potential energy—enough to explode with the force of thirty very large hydrogen bombs, assuming you knew how to liberate it and really wished to make a point."

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Boris and his Purdah plan on 14:55 - Aug 12 with 1259 viewsGlasgowBlue

Boris and his Purdah plan on 14:33 - Aug 12 by Steve_M

"The only thing that really matters to Boris, is Boris."

Which is why I'm not persuaded that he will call an early election, why scheme for years to get a job and then risk it straight away.


This is a good piece about the tactics remain parties will use in the event of a GE.

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/08/the-remain-alliance-that-could-spoil-boris

Looks like the Greens will go for Corbyn’s seat.

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Boris and his Purdah plan on 15:07 - Aug 12 with 1226 viewsgordon

Boris and his Purdah plan on 14:33 - Aug 12 by Steve_M

"The only thing that really matters to Boris, is Boris."

Which is why I'm not persuaded that he will call an early election, why scheme for years to get a job and then risk it straight away.


He's not going to call a General Election - he's assuming that he's going to lose a no confidence vote as soon as parliament opens again. Then there's a 14 day period within which a very badly designed piece of legislation applies - the Fixed Term Parliament Act.

Basically, all those MPs who oppose a no deal brexit have to agree to work together constructively to agree on an interim leader who could command the support of the house in the short-term, then have that potential leader win a confidence vote in that 14 day period.

If that doesn't happen, then Boris can call an election whenever he wants, and is under no obligation to resign, or to call the election by a certain date.

It's really up to all those MPs who oppose no-deal to finally do something about. Obviously Boris and his ilk are tw*ts, but the way most of rest of the house has pretty much just quietly gone along with Brexit, even though it's complete madness has been disgraceful.
[Post edited 12 Aug 15:07]
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Boris and his Purdah plan on 15:23 - Aug 12 with 1205 viewsfactual_blue

Purdah only applies to Civil Servants and Ministers.

The governing party can make election promises, as can the opposition parties.

It's the dissolution of Parliament that would stop discussion.

I imagine boris would be looking for a snap election after winning getting brexit through, not before. He wants to be PM for a bit long than - what? - a dozen weeks.

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Boris and his Purdah plan on 15:30 - Aug 12 with 1180 viewsKievthegreat

We have a constitution based on convention and precedent with only a small smattering of laws. Such a system requires ministers to "play fair". Boris and Cummings have stated that they have no such inclination.

All the more reason why MPs need to use the FPTA to their advantage. This is a law, it offer greater protection from any machiavellian scheming.
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Boris and his Purdah plan on 16:09 - Aug 12 with 1125 viewsfactual_blue

Boris and his Purdah plan on 14:25 - Aug 12 by BrixtonBlue

"But it would still effectively be tying the hands of a future administration. Very bad form."

Indeed. But if that's the rule, what's to stop him? I'm hoping there's some 'special circumstances' clause to stop the white haired buffoon... which is why I posed the OP.

On the face of it, unless someone knows different, Purdah is the loophole he needs.


I think it's unlikely, despite all the bluster, that they'll go for any sort of plan like this. It would be the self-destruct button for the tory party.

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Boris and his Purdah plan on 16:13 - Aug 12 with 1118 viewsPinewoodblue

Boris and his Purdah plan on 15:30 - Aug 12 by Kievthegreat

We have a constitution based on convention and precedent with only a small smattering of laws. Such a system requires ministers to "play fair". Boris and Cummings have stated that they have no such inclination.

All the more reason why MPs need to use the FPTA to their advantage. This is a law, it offer greater protection from any machiavellian scheming.


Trouble is Corbyn will not willingly surrender a chance of forcing an election.

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Boris and his Purdah plan on 16:37 - Aug 12 with 1090 viewsKievthegreat

Boris and his Purdah plan on 16:13 - Aug 12 by Pinewoodblue

Trouble is Corbyn will not willingly surrender a chance of forcing an election.


Hence force a no confidence vote and put in a new caretaker government within the 14 day window who can get an extension to A50 and control the timetable of any election.
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Boris and his Purdah plan on 16:44 - Aug 12 with 1082 viewsStokieBlue

Boris and his Purdah plan on 16:37 - Aug 12 by Kievthegreat

Hence force a no confidence vote and put in a new caretaker government within the 14 day window who can get an extension to A50 and control the timetable of any election.


I don't really understand the Labour plan at the moment.

They could obviously have a no confidence vote (which they might not win) but let's assume they do win then they would need the SNP to form a government and they have said very clearly they won't work with them on that.

So what is the point in it all?

SB

“You may not feel outstandingly robust, but if you are an average-sized adult you will contain within your modest frame no less than 7 X 10^18 joules of potential energy—enough to explode with the force of thirty very large hydrogen bombs, assuming you knew how to liberate it and really wished to make a point."

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Boris and his Purdah plan on 17:35 - Aug 12 with 1037 viewsflimflam

Boris and his Purdah plan on 16:09 - Aug 12 by factual_blue

I think it's unlikely, despite all the bluster, that they'll go for any sort of plan like this. It would be the self-destruct button for the tory party.


Its exactly what they are doing unless the EU comes back to the table which they have declined thus far.

Its a perfect storm for BJ and his no deal chums and nothing anyone can do to stop it now.
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Boris and his Purdah plan on 17:58 - Aug 12 with 1012 viewsBloomBlue

Boris and his Purdah plan on 16:44 - Aug 12 by StokieBlue

I don't really understand the Labour plan at the moment.

They could obviously have a no confidence vote (which they might not win) but let's assume they do win then they would need the SNP to form a government and they have said very clearly they won't work with them on that.

So what is the point in it all?

SB


They want to force a GE, trouble is they could shot themselves in the foot as it gives Bojo the chance to set the GE after the UK leaves the EU.

UK leaves with no deal and let's Labout wins the GE and want to rejoin the EU I cannot imagine the EU will let the UK back on the same terms.
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Boris and his Purdah plan on 20:38 - Aug 12 with 929 viewsKievthegreat

Boris and his Purdah plan on 16:44 - Aug 12 by StokieBlue

I don't really understand the Labour plan at the moment.

They could obviously have a no confidence vote (which they might not win) but let's assume they do win then they would need the SNP to form a government and they have said very clearly they won't work with them on that.

So what is the point in it all?

SB


It's in a'negotiation' phase. Labour are setting out that it needs to be Corbyn, Lib Dems, Greens, etc... are pushing that it should be a backbencher and that it mustn't be Corbyn. It's a lot of posturing right now, but I can't imagine any situation that a new "letter writing" government doesn't get through in some shape or form.
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Boris and his Purdah plan on 20:40 - Aug 12 with 923 viewsKievthegreat

Boris and his Purdah plan on 17:58 - Aug 12 by BloomBlue

They want to force a GE, trouble is they could shot themselves in the foot as it gives Bojo the chance to set the GE after the UK leaves the EU.

UK leaves with no deal and let's Labout wins the GE and want to rejoin the EU I cannot imagine the EU will let the UK back on the same terms.


Only if a new government can't be formed. If a majority in the house can support someone else they can become Prime Minister and Boris loses his control.
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Boris and his Purdah plan on 21:16 - Aug 12 with 895 viewsStokieBlue

Boris and his Purdah plan on 20:38 - Aug 12 by Kievthegreat

It's in a'negotiation' phase. Labour are setting out that it needs to be Corbyn, Lib Dems, Greens, etc... are pushing that it should be a backbencher and that it mustn't be Corbyn. It's a lot of posturing right now, but I can't imagine any situation that a new "letter writing" government doesn't get through in some shape or form.


That all sounds like a rather desperate attempt to get JC into power without actually having an election.

It's not really better than what Boris has done. It might happen but at the moment I don't see how they will get a majority with the attitudes of Labour and the SNP.

SB

“You may not feel outstandingly robust, but if you are an average-sized adult you will contain within your modest frame no less than 7 X 10^18 joules of potential energy—enough to explode with the force of thirty very large hydrogen bombs, assuming you knew how to liberate it and really wished to make a point."

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Boris and his Purdah plan on 22:28 - Aug 12 with 827 viewsKievthegreat

Boris and his Purdah plan on 21:16 - Aug 12 by StokieBlue

That all sounds like a rather desperate attempt to get JC into power without actually having an election.

It's not really better than what Boris has done. It might happen but at the moment I don't see how they will get a majority with the attitudes of Labour and the SNP.

SB


IF a serious attempt is made to get Corbyn in (I think it should be a backbencher, but I reckon Corbyn would throw a tiff), it will be limited to purely getting an extension and then an election.
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Boris and his Purdah plan on 22:59 - Aug 12 with 790 viewsHARRY10

The reality is all sides know brexit is not going to happen.But don't want to be seen as the ones who finally pulled the plug. This has been the cause of so such delay - though wiser heads might have noticed that there always have been enough votes to carefully push it in the right direction.

Which suggests there will also be enough votes to finish the job. Ask your selves why things have contrived to now be a choice between no brexit and no deal. Could it be that having that choice allows MPs to state that they had to stop this suicidal leap into oblivion.

So cast your minds back and you would find very few, three years ago, who would imagine that brexit had not happened by now and in fact all the talk was actually how to put an end to it once and for all.

We are here not by accident but by MPs also having an eye on their future as well as that of the country. And around 60 nut job right wingers will not crash the UK economy as much as Bertie Bulls it tries to tell uus they will.
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