| Just one question 08:50 - Jun 17 with 3362 views | BlueNomad |
Members of the Tory Party should ask themselves one thing - is Johnson the sort of person I would want to see get a promotion at work? Is he the sort of boss I would want to work for? If no then how the hell could they want him to be promoted to leader of the country! |  | | |  |
| Just one question on 09:05 - Jun 17 with 2958 views | Darth_Koont |
We're talking about 120,000 Conservative members here.
My generalisation? If I had to guess they're not exactly the types to do much soul-searching. They'll vote for a patrician, establishment figure with more than a hint of gammony Brexit. And they'll enjoy BoJo's bluster and get off on the "Let's put on a top show, chaps, and let Jerry know who they're dealing with, what?" vibe.
I don't think a leader's effectiveness or the country's future will be high on their list. |  |
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| Just one question on 09:08 - Jun 17 with 2945 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Just one question on 09:05 - Jun 17 by Darth_Koont |
We're talking about 120,000 Conservative members here.
My generalisation? If I had to guess they're not exactly the types to do much soul-searching. They'll vote for a patrician, establishment figure with more than a hint of gammony Brexit. And they'll enjoy BoJo's bluster and get off on the "Let's put on a top show, chaps, and let Jerry know who they're dealing with, what?" vibe.
I don't think a leader's effectiveness or the country's future will be high on their list. |
Their one and only priority... is the Conservative party. |  |
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| Just one question on 09:14 - Jun 17 with 2931 views | BlueNomad |
| Just one question on 09:08 - Jun 17 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Their one and only priority... is the Conservative party. |
The answers I expected. My big hope now is that we have short term pain, the party will hit the rocks and sink without trace. The potential downside is the chance of Brexit Party or similar filling the vacuum and Labour still trying to find credibility with the majority.
I become more PessimisticBlue by the day! | | | |
| Just one question on 09:49 - Jun 17 with 2895 views | GeoffSentence |
| Just one question on 09:08 - Jun 17 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Their one and only priority... is the Conservative party. |
Not entirely true, BoJo has another priority and that is BoJo. |  |
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| Just one question on 09:50 - Jun 17 with 2897 views | pickles110564 |
I would work for Boris, he has proved how capable he is when he turned around London after years of Labour neglect. |  | | |
| Just one question on 10:03 - Jun 17 with 2871 views | StokieBlue |
| Just one question on 09:50 - Jun 17 by pickles110564 |
I would work for Boris, he has proved how capable he is when he turned around London after years of Labour neglect. |
I know you're not going to like this but can you post some facts or evidence to back that assertion?
SB |  |
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| Just one question on 10:06 - Jun 17 with 2859 views | WeWereZombies |
| Just one question on 09:14 - Jun 17 by BlueNomad |
The answers I expected. My big hope now is that we have short term pain, the party will hit the rocks and sink without trace. The potential downside is the chance of Brexit Party or similar filling the vacuum and Labour still trying to find credibility with the majority.
I become more PessimisticBlue by the day! |
Don't let the pessimism take you over 100% just yet:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48658683 |  |
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| Just one question on 10:06 - Jun 17 with 2867 views | WestStanderLaLaLa |
| Just one question on 09:50 - Jun 17 by pickles110564 |
I would work for Boris, he has proved how capable he is when he turned around London after years of Labour neglect. |
Spent millions on a bridge that was never built, bought a water cannon that couldn’t be used. That sort of turning around? |  |
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| Just one question on 10:12 - Jun 17 with 2835 views | Herbivore |
| Just one question on 10:06 - Jun 17 by WestStanderLaLaLa |
Spent millions on a bridge that was never built, bought a water cannon that couldn’t be used. That sort of turning around? |
Shutting loads of fire stations, that kind of thing. |  |
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| Just one question on 10:16 - Jun 17 with 2838 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Just one question on 10:03 - Jun 17 by StokieBlue |
I know you're not going to like this but can you post some facts or evidence to back that assertion?
SB |
I’m no fan of Johnson and he will be a disaster as PM if his record as FS is anything to go by, however, in the eight years he was Mayor the homicide rate in London fell from 22 per million to 12 per million people (about a 50% cut), the number of road traffic fatalities in Greater London fell by 45%, more affordable homes were built than during the 8 years Ken Livingstone was Mayor and by the time he left office no London boroughs appeared in the top 20 of the poorest boroughs in the country whereas previously the top 20 included 4. |  |
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| Just one question on 10:21 - Jun 17 with 2822 views | Herbivore |
| Just one question on 10:16 - Jun 17 by GlasgowBlue |
I’m no fan of Johnson and he will be a disaster as PM if his record as FS is anything to go by, however, in the eight years he was Mayor the homicide rate in London fell from 22 per million to 12 per million people (about a 50% cut), the number of road traffic fatalities in Greater London fell by 45%, more affordable homes were built than during the 8 years Ken Livingstone was Mayor and by the time he left office no London boroughs appeared in the top 20 of the poorest boroughs in the country whereas previously the top 20 included 4. |
That's painting rather a one sided view and there are other statistics, particularly relating to deprivation, that don't support those claims. It's also arguable how much of that was down to anything Boris actually did. Homicide rates were falling nationally for a start. And part of the increase in affordable housing is accounted for by Boris changing the definition of what affordable housing is, so I guess that's something he's actually responsible for. | |
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| Just one question on 10:28 - Jun 17 with 2810 views | eireblue |
| Just one question on 10:16 - Jun 17 by GlasgowBlue |
I’m no fan of Johnson and he will be a disaster as PM if his record as FS is anything to go by, however, in the eight years he was Mayor the homicide rate in London fell from 22 per million to 12 per million people (about a 50% cut), the number of road traffic fatalities in Greater London fell by 45%, more affordable homes were built than during the 8 years Ken Livingstone was Mayor and by the time he left office no London boroughs appeared in the top 20 of the poorest boroughs in the country whereas previously the top 20 included 4. |
This is an example of why you have to be careful with statistics.
What was happening in the rest of the country?
What was happening in other large UK cities?
Statistics should be used to compare things.
The question should be, did BoJo do something that was over and above improvements that were happening nationally? |  | | |
| Just one question on 10:28 - Jun 17 with 2814 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Just one question on 10:21 - Jun 17 by Herbivore |
That's painting rather a one sided view and there are other statistics, particularly relating to deprivation, that don't support those claims. It's also arguable how much of that was down to anything Boris actually did. Homicide rates were falling nationally for a start. And part of the increase in affordable housing is accounted for by Boris changing the definition of what affordable housing is, so I guess that's something he's actually responsible for. |
The homicide rate did fall nationally at the same time. But nowhere near that of London.
SB asked for figures, I provided them. I dislike Johnson immensely but am at least prepared to look at things honestly. Your views that all Tories are evil scum with absolutely no redeeming features, renders what you post on the subject extremely biased. | |
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| Just one question on 10:29 - Jun 17 with 2803 views | WeWereZombies |
| Just one question on 10:16 - Jun 17 by GlasgowBlue |
I’m no fan of Johnson and he will be a disaster as PM if his record as FS is anything to go by, however, in the eight years he was Mayor the homicide rate in London fell from 22 per million to 12 per million people (about a 50% cut), the number of road traffic fatalities in Greater London fell by 45%, more affordable homes were built than during the 8 years Ken Livingstone was Mayor and by the time he left office no London boroughs appeared in the top 20 of the poorest boroughs in the country whereas previously the top 20 included 4. |
There is always a lag factor in policy though, isn't there? How much of those improvements was due to initiatives Livingstone (who was surprisingly popular amongst Londoners who were otherwise very conservative in their views) put in place. And how much of the crime increase that Khan is having to shoulder is due to Johnson's neglect of rising inequality? It would not surprise me if it were found that there were some massaging of the data regarding which are the poorest boroughs (or that those four poor boroughs had got poorer but there were other parts of Britain where poverty was taking hold even faster).
On the traffic fatalities I wonder if that was due to the increase in traffic after Johnson's accession seemed to signal an end to the spirit of the congestion charge and roads got more clogged up. Accidents are less likely to be fatal if everything moves at a crawl. | |
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| Just one question on 10:34 - Jun 17 with 2776 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Just one question on 10:29 - Jun 17 by WeWereZombies |
There is always a lag factor in policy though, isn't there? How much of those improvements was due to initiatives Livingstone (who was surprisingly popular amongst Londoners who were otherwise very conservative in their views) put in place. And how much of the crime increase that Khan is having to shoulder is due to Johnson's neglect of rising inequality? It would not surprise me if it were found that there were some massaging of the data regarding which are the poorest boroughs (or that those four poor boroughs had got poorer but there were other parts of Britain where poverty was taking hold even faster).
On the traffic fatalities I wonder if that was due to the increase in traffic after Johnson's accession seemed to signal an end to the spirit of the congestion charge and roads got more clogged up. Accidents are less likely to be fatal if everything moves at a crawl. |
I see. So we now credit Blair’s success to Major and blame Brown for the Cameron years. | |
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| Just one question on 10:34 - Jun 17 with 2782 views | hampstead_blue |
Talking to fiends at cricket yesterday, also one of whom works for one of the candidates.
They all have nothing good to say about Boris. He is a team builder and mouthpiece. He's not the man to do the heavy lifting.
I feel the membership like him because he can be funny and plays to the right wing.
Rory Stewart has greatly surprised me. He's clearly not the person we did some work for a few years back. |  |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| Just one question on 10:35 - Jun 17 with 2777 views | SomethingBlue |
| Just one question on 09:50 - Jun 17 by pickles110564 |
I would work for Boris, he has proved how capable he is when he turned around London after years of Labour neglect. |
Must have been out of London while that happened ... |  |
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| Just one question on 10:40 - Jun 17 with 2753 views | footers |
| Just one question on 10:34 - Jun 17 by GlasgowBlue |
I see. So we now credit Blair’s success to Major and blame Brown for the Cameron years. |
Stupid reply to serious point. |  |
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| Just one question on 10:45 - Jun 17 with 2740 views | Herbivore |
| Just one question on 10:28 - Jun 17 by GlasgowBlue |
The homicide rate did fall nationally at the same time. But nowhere near that of London.
SB asked for figures, I provided them. I dislike Johnson immensely but am at least prepared to look at things honestly. Your views that all Tories are evil scum with absolutely no redeeming features, renders what you post on the subject extremely biased. |
I see you still prefer dismissing others' views rather than engaging in honest debate. Now I remember why I stopped debating with you, and I think I'll just go back to doing the same as you're really not worth my time to be honest. | |
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| Just one question on 10:48 - Jun 17 with 2729 views | WeWereZombies |
| Just one question on 10:34 - Jun 17 by GlasgowBlue |
I see. So we now credit Blair’s success to Major and blame Brown for the Cameron years. |
There is something in that, Major inherited a lot of problems from Thatcher and was careful in sorting them out, He, and especially Lamont, had poor fortune in the timing of the ERM exit, although they could be criticised for poor strategic decisions but benefit of hindsight and all that. And whilst Brown did a credible job at containing the United States induced banking crisis he also gave George Osborne a little less to play with following the sale of so much of the gold reserves at what turned out to be an undervalue, benefit of hindsight.
Sorry for bringing the complexity of reality into your spin dominated worldview...
[edit] Sorry, I should have left that jibe at the end out. And instead remembered to address the issue about Blair benefiting from the Major years by having both an easy 'look, we are doing better' to bat against and an underlying solidity in government for 'New Labour' to build upon. Heaven only knows what the winner of the next general election will have to deal with. [Post edited 17 Jun 2019 10:55]
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| Just one question on 10:59 - Jun 17 with 2691 views | WeWereZombies |
| Just one question on 10:34 - Jun 17 by hampstead_blue |
Talking to fiends at cricket yesterday, also one of whom works for one of the candidates.
They all have nothing good to say about Boris. He is a team builder and mouthpiece. He's not the man to do the heavy lifting.
I feel the membership like him because he can be funny and plays to the right wing.
Rory Stewart has greatly surprised me. He's clearly not the person we did some work for a few years back. |
I met Leo Johnson at an accountancy presentation once, if his brother is anything like him I have to say that instant unease is the strangest feeling but perhaps it just shuts up people who may get in your way. | |
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| Just one question on 11:09 - Jun 17 with 2668 views | hampstead_blue |
| Just one question on 10:59 - Jun 17 by WeWereZombies |
I met Leo Johnson at an accountancy presentation once, if his brother is anything like him I have to say that instant unease is the strangest feeling but perhaps it just shuts up people who may get in your way. |
We played cricket against his son Milo a couple of years back. Very good batter. Scored 80 or so against us.
Nice guy.
Never met BJ nor would I go out of my way to. | |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| Just one question on 11:53 - Jun 17 with 2577 views | ROKERITE |
The one thing most members of The Conservative Party are asking themselves is "who'll deliver BREXIT?" The vast majority are seething at what they see as three wasted years under a leader they never even had a chance to vote on. That's the main reason they oppose the "coronation" of Boris by the M.P.'s.
The worry many have is that Boris is untrustworthy and might not do the one outstanding job he's being tasked with --- get us out of The E.U.. Which could lead all those deriding Boris on here, in an ironic twist, singing his praises. | | | |
| Just one question on 12:41 - Jun 17 with 2463 views | Guthrum |
| Just one question on 11:53 - Jun 17 by ROKERITE |
The one thing most members of The Conservative Party are asking themselves is "who'll deliver BREXIT?" The vast majority are seething at what they see as three wasted years under a leader they never even had a chance to vote on. That's the main reason they oppose the "coronation" of Boris by the M.P.'s.
The worry many have is that Boris is untrustworthy and might not do the one outstanding job he's being tasked with --- get us out of The E.U.. Which could lead all those deriding Boris on here, in an ironic twist, singing his praises. |
I suspect he is more likely to fail to leave the EU, rather than deliberately remaining. Which will, rightly, earn him no plaudits from anybody.
On past record, how good is he at brinkmanship, if that is to be used as a tool in negotiations? Especially if not dealt a good hand to start off with and hamstrung by his own party's internal divisions (as May was). |  |
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| Just one question on 12:45 - Jun 17 with 2446 views | gordon |
| Just one question on 10:29 - Jun 17 by WeWereZombies |
There is always a lag factor in policy though, isn't there? How much of those improvements was due to initiatives Livingstone (who was surprisingly popular amongst Londoners who were otherwise very conservative in their views) put in place. And how much of the crime increase that Khan is having to shoulder is due to Johnson's neglect of rising inequality? It would not surprise me if it were found that there were some massaging of the data regarding which are the poorest boroughs (or that those four poor boroughs had got poorer but there were other parts of Britain where poverty was taking hold even faster).
On the traffic fatalities I wonder if that was due to the increase in traffic after Johnson's accession seemed to signal an end to the spirit of the congestion charge and roads got more clogged up. Accidents are less likely to be fatal if everything moves at a crawl. |
Not quite sure how changing the Mayor makes less people die on roads! Think that decline is mirrored nationally, and related to modern cars having better safety features. To be meaningful any statistics like that have to be related to specific policies and compared to data from other similar cities. |  | | |
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