People’s vote! 09:57 - Mar 24 with 4995 views | bluejacko | A lot has been made of how Countries,regions etc voted in the referendum,am I to understand that for a people’s vote it would not matter what country you came from it would be an individuals vote that got counted UK wide? Still been there haven’t we? | | | | |
People’s vote! on 12:10 - Mar 24 with 3796 views | Leaky | Yes we have been there before, wonder what the was & if MP's will take any notice of the result | | | |
People’s vote! on 12:27 - Mar 24 with 3781 views | Trequartista | I don't think many who are marching for a people's vote have thought much about the details of how that vote would work, all they want is to remain in the EU. | |
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People’s vote! on 12:40 - Mar 24 with 3758 views | J2BLUE | Yes it's UK wide. Sadly for Scotland it's a reality of being less than 1/10th of the entire UK population. Is it fair? No but it's even more unfair for 5m people to decide the fate of a 64m people nation just because they are a separate country within the union. Sturgeon thinks it's unfair that Scotland are being dragged along with the rest of the UK but she openly admits she asked Cameron to set the referendum rules so that any individual country could veto the result. She knew Scotland were for remain so she was arguing to make the vote meaningless which is apparently ok because Scotland gets what they want. | |
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People’s vote! on 12:46 - Mar 24 with 3751 views | Herbivore |
People’s vote! on 12:40 - Mar 24 by J2BLUE | Yes it's UK wide. Sadly for Scotland it's a reality of being less than 1/10th of the entire UK population. Is it fair? No but it's even more unfair for 5m people to decide the fate of a 64m people nation just because they are a separate country within the union. Sturgeon thinks it's unfair that Scotland are being dragged along with the rest of the UK but she openly admits she asked Cameron to set the referendum rules so that any individual country could veto the result. She knew Scotland were for remain so she was arguing to make the vote meaningless which is apparently ok because Scotland gets what they want. |
It's a fair point though. The UK is made up of four countries and they have some degree of independence through devolved government. I don't think it'd have been unreasonable for each country to need to have voted for leave in order for it to be ratified. Only two of the four countries of the UK voted leave. The comprehensive polling done for the C4 Brexit special last year has all four counties of the UK now wanting to remain. | |
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People’s vote! on 12:50 - Mar 24 with 3745 views | pickles110564 |
People’s vote! on 12:46 - Mar 24 by Herbivore | It's a fair point though. The UK is made up of four countries and they have some degree of independence through devolved government. I don't think it'd have been unreasonable for each country to need to have voted for leave in order for it to be ratified. Only two of the four countries of the UK voted leave. The comprehensive polling done for the C4 Brexit special last year has all four counties of the UK now wanting to remain. |
LOL, of course they do Herbie, told you before polls are a waste of time and energy. | | | |
People’s vote! on 12:52 - Mar 24 with 3742 views | Herbivore |
People’s vote! on 12:50 - Mar 24 by pickles110564 | LOL, of course they do Herbie, told you before polls are a waste of time and energy. |
They are worth more than the baseless views of a man on the internet I'd say. | |
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People’s vote! on 12:55 - Mar 24 with 3740 views | bluejacko |
People’s vote! on 12:52 - Mar 24 by Herbivore | They are worth more than the baseless views of a man on the internet I'd say. |
So your views and opions are worthless then! | | | |
People’s vote! on 12:56 - Mar 24 with 3736 views | Herbivore |
People’s vote! on 12:55 - Mar 24 by bluejacko | So your views and opions are worthless then! |
No, my opinions aren't baseless. Not all opinions are equal. | |
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People’s vote! on 13:03 - Mar 24 with 3729 views | Darth_Koont |
People’s vote! on 12:40 - Mar 24 by J2BLUE | Yes it's UK wide. Sadly for Scotland it's a reality of being less than 1/10th of the entire UK population. Is it fair? No but it's even more unfair for 5m people to decide the fate of a 64m people nation just because they are a separate country within the union. Sturgeon thinks it's unfair that Scotland are being dragged along with the rest of the UK but she openly admits she asked Cameron to set the referendum rules so that any individual country could veto the result. She knew Scotland were for remain so she was arguing to make the vote meaningless which is apparently ok because Scotland gets what they want. |
What's the point of a union of nations if you always have to default to the interests of the bigger one? Scotland would have a veto and the mandate to negotiate an opt-out from agreements as part of the EU. Which is just one of the main reasons why independence within the EU is currently a much better option even if the UK stays in the EU. | |
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People’s vote! on 13:36 - Mar 24 with 3691 views | J2BLUE |
People’s vote! on 13:03 - Mar 24 by Darth_Koont | What's the point of a union of nations if you always have to default to the interests of the bigger one? Scotland would have a veto and the mandate to negotiate an opt-out from agreements as part of the EU. Which is just one of the main reasons why independence within the EU is currently a much better option even if the UK stays in the EU. |
I do see your point, I just hope Scotland leaves the UK. I think it is in the interests of Scotland and England. | |
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People’s vote! on 13:40 - Mar 24 with 3684 views | Leaky |
People’s vote! on 12:46 - Mar 24 by Herbivore | It's a fair point though. The UK is made up of four countries and they have some degree of independence through devolved government. I don't think it'd have been unreasonable for each country to need to have voted for leave in order for it to be ratified. Only two of the four countries of the UK voted leave. The comprehensive polling done for the C4 Brexit special last year has all four counties of the UK now wanting to remain. |
There's probably more Scots live in England than live in Scotland. | | | |
People’s vote! on 13:50 - Mar 24 with 3665 views | Herbivore |
People’s vote! on 13:40 - Mar 24 by Leaky | There's probably more Scots live in England than live in Scotland. |
No there aren't. [Post edited 24 Mar 2019 13:50]
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People’s vote! on 13:53 - Mar 24 with 3648 views | Herbivore |
People’s vote! on 12:56 - Mar 24 by Herbivore | No, my opinions aren't baseless. Not all opinions are equal. |
Few people upset by this entirely uncontroversial post. | |
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People’s vote! on 13:55 - Mar 24 with 3642 views | J2BLUE |
People’s vote! on 13:53 - Mar 24 by Herbivore | Few people upset by this entirely uncontroversial post. |
I they have misunderstood your point. The opinion that the sky is multicoloured it not equal to an opinion that it is blue. | |
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People’s vote! on 13:55 - Mar 24 with 3642 views | Darth_Koont |
People’s vote! on 13:36 - Mar 24 by J2BLUE | I do see your point, I just hope Scotland leaves the UK. I think it is in the interests of Scotland and England. |
It's certainly not in the interests of England. And all you're doing is moving the epicentre of dissatisfaction further south to Wakefield. England will still have the same underlying structural problems. | |
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People’s vote! on 13:59 - Mar 24 with 3620 views | J2BLUE |
People’s vote! on 13:55 - Mar 24 by Darth_Koont | It's certainly not in the interests of England. And all you're doing is moving the epicentre of dissatisfaction further south to Wakefield. England will still have the same underlying structural problems. |
Why not? Scotland already gets more funding per head. Lets spend that money on the NHS instead . Scotland is a competent nation with a clear identity and should not be dragged along by England. I don't see how it would be fair for Scotland's population to be given an equal share of the say in the direction of the country as England's population. You mention the EU but the direction is mostly set by the big players and we don't see many decisions vetoed by the smaller countries. Do you at least agree that neither England or Scotland having to go along with the other country is fair? | |
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People’s vote! on 14:02 - Mar 24 with 3611 views | Leaky |
People’s vote! on 13:50 - Mar 24 by Herbivore | No there aren't. [Post edited 24 Mar 2019 13:50]
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You counted then. Try visiting Corby | | | |
People’s vote! on 14:09 - Mar 24 with 3595 views | Darth_Koont |
People’s vote! on 13:59 - Mar 24 by J2BLUE | Why not? Scotland already gets more funding per head. Lets spend that money on the NHS instead . Scotland is a competent nation with a clear identity and should not be dragged along by England. I don't see how it would be fair for Scotland's population to be given an equal share of the say in the direction of the country as England's population. You mention the EU but the direction is mostly set by the big players and we don't see many decisions vetoed by the smaller countries. Do you at least agree that neither England or Scotland having to go along with the other country is fair? |
No, there's nothing wrong with compromise for the greater good. Politically, over the past few decades, the greater good has been about winning marginal seats in middle-class areas in Middle England which is why we've got the current situation. There is a reason that Scotland, Northern Ireland, Wales and the North East of England get more funding. Because they've been criminally neglected over the years to support a largely South East based services industry. Of course that value needs to to be redistributed and not just with relatively small handouts. Have a look at the pathetic Northern Powerhouse project to see how little commitment there is to actually redressing these imbalances. | |
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People’s vote! on 14:17 - Mar 24 with 3580 views | SpruceMoose |
People’s vote! on 13:55 - Mar 24 by J2BLUE | I they have misunderstood your point. The opinion that the sky is multicoloured it not equal to an opinion that it is blue. |
I hope you apply this wisdom to my future postings! | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | Poll: | Selectamod |
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People’s vote! on 14:19 - Mar 24 with 3573 views | J2BLUE |
People’s vote! on 14:09 - Mar 24 by Darth_Koont | No, there's nothing wrong with compromise for the greater good. Politically, over the past few decades, the greater good has been about winning marginal seats in middle-class areas in Middle England which is why we've got the current situation. There is a reason that Scotland, Northern Ireland, Wales and the North East of England get more funding. Because they've been criminally neglected over the years to support a largely South East based services industry. Of course that value needs to to be redistributed and not just with relatively small handouts. Have a look at the pathetic Northern Powerhouse project to see how little commitment there is to actually redressing these imbalances. |
Nothing wrong with compromise but Brexit is a great example. For argument's sake lets say the overall will of the people is still to leave and Scotland's people want to remain. What should happen? Either Scotland gets screwed or England gets screwed. I think Scottish independence is inevitable. | |
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People’s vote! on 14:27 - Mar 24 with 3551 views | Darth_Koont |
People’s vote! on 14:19 - Mar 24 by J2BLUE | Nothing wrong with compromise but Brexit is a great example. For argument's sake lets say the overall will of the people is still to leave and Scotland's people want to remain. What should happen? Either Scotland gets screwed or England gets screwed. I think Scottish independence is inevitable. |
If the overall will of the people is still to leave then Scotland has nothing to gain from being part of the United Kingdom. Better to escape the insanity. But, of course, Brexit on its own isn't the reason to leave the UK. It's in the longstanding context of a political system that can't look after its citizens properly and an electorate that can't be bothered with that either as long as they've got some cash in their pocket. | |
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People’s vote! on 14:32 - Mar 24 with 3531 views | WeWereZombies |
People’s vote! on 14:19 - Mar 24 by J2BLUE | Nothing wrong with compromise but Brexit is a great example. For argument's sake lets say the overall will of the people is still to leave and Scotland's people want to remain. What should happen? Either Scotland gets screwed or England gets screwed. I think Scottish independence is inevitable. |
Errr, if we actually do leave we all get screwed. Regarding your earlier point about England and Scotland being better off without each other - no we wouldn't, we really would not. What happens to Faslane? How is the economic bill for independence shared out, and in which direction? No one can even understand the Barnett formula any more and the guy who devised it has passed on. How is the military funded? What about maritime waters? Over four hundred years ago we had a union of crowns and over three hundred years ago a union of parliaments. For better or worse the empire that resulted was the biggest and most powerful ever. What remains is better than almost any other union on Earth. Look at the damage losing Ireland caused to our destiny (and I am still unsure if it did Ireland's destiny a world of good either) and ask yourself if it is possible to learn lessons. | |
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People’s vote! on 14:38 - Mar 24 with 3516 views | J2BLUE |
People’s vote! on 14:32 - Mar 24 by WeWereZombies | Errr, if we actually do leave we all get screwed. Regarding your earlier point about England and Scotland being better off without each other - no we wouldn't, we really would not. What happens to Faslane? How is the economic bill for independence shared out, and in which direction? No one can even understand the Barnett formula any more and the guy who devised it has passed on. How is the military funded? What about maritime waters? Over four hundred years ago we had a union of crowns and over three hundred years ago a union of parliaments. For better or worse the empire that resulted was the biggest and most powerful ever. What remains is better than almost any other union on Earth. Look at the damage losing Ireland caused to our destiny (and I am still unsure if it did Ireland's destiny a world of good either) and ask yourself if it is possible to learn lessons. |
That's why I used a hypothetical situation rather than the actual situation. I'm open to ideas if you can find a way to respect all home nations while acknowledging that England has a huge population majority. I'm more than happy to listen and have no ill will towards the Scots and respect they don't wish to be dictated to by the English. | |
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People’s vote! on 14:44 - Mar 24 with 3495 views | Darth_Koont |
People’s vote! on 14:38 - Mar 24 by J2BLUE | That's why I used a hypothetical situation rather than the actual situation. I'm open to ideas if you can find a way to respect all home nations while acknowledging that England has a huge population majority. I'm more than happy to listen and have no ill will towards the Scots and respect they don't wish to be dictated to by the English. |
The way to respect all home nations is to have respect for all home nations, and more specifically all citizens. But we don't have that political culture. Or social culture it seems. As I said, Scotland leaving isn't the answer for the UK's best interests. It's stopping being so passive about what's really important. For example, how we've stood by and let austerity play out on the poorer members of society is absolutely criminal. [Post edited 24 Mar 2019 14:44]
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People’s vote! on 14:48 - Mar 24 with 3480 views | J2BLUE |
People’s vote! on 14:44 - Mar 24 by Darth_Koont | The way to respect all home nations is to have respect for all home nations, and more specifically all citizens. But we don't have that political culture. Or social culture it seems. As I said, Scotland leaving isn't the answer for the UK's best interests. It's stopping being so passive about what's really important. For example, how we've stood by and let austerity play out on the poorer members of society is absolutely criminal. [Post edited 24 Mar 2019 14:44]
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Your answers are vague. I'm looking for detail. How do we respect all home nations? All have an equal say and a veto? You said earlier that outside the EU there is no benefit for Scotland and you might as well leave. Is leaving something the Scots will play on forever more to try and get what they want and if a big decision goes against you you'll just leave. It seems you want it all ways. | |
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