| A 2nd referendum then 18:38 - Dec 11 with 8405 views | homer_123 |
With three options.
1. Leave the EU based on the current deal offered by the EU
2. Leave the EU with no deal
3. Remain in the EU
1st and 2nd choice are voted for or a single vote?
Listening to the radio earlier, sounded like Ms Blackman simply wanted 2 choices...
1. Remain
2. Leave EU with current deal
Thoughts? [Post edited 11 Dec 2018 18:38]
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| A 2nd referendum then on 18:40 - Dec 11 with 3596 views | Withnail |
Wheres my yellow jacket. |  | | |
| A 2nd referendum then on 18:42 - Dec 11 with 3585 views | factual_blue |
Any politician who offers the 'leave with no deal' option might as well set fire to the country. |  |
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| A 2nd referendum then on 18:45 - Dec 11 with 3572 views | SpruceMoose |
| A 2nd referendum then on 18:40 - Dec 11 by Withnail |
Wheres my yellow jacket. |
The British are too lazy to follow the fine example set by the French.
This applies to many areas. |  |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| A 2nd referendum then on 18:46 - Dec 11 with 3563 views | homer_123 |
| A 2nd referendum then on 18:42 - Dec 11 by factual_blue |
Any politician who offers the 'leave with no deal' option might as well set fire to the country. |
Surely the issue Facters is that now we 'know' what we are voting for, then surely a no deal Brexit should be on the ballot? What if the majority still want to leave but not under the deal being offered?
If we are talking about a democratic process (regardless of how we all might personally vote) it's right to have that option on the ballot, now we know what the options are? [Post edited 11 Dec 2018 18:47]
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| A 2nd referendum then on 18:54 - Dec 11 with 3517 views | BlueForYou |
Would a second referendum but only in Northern Ireland work? Seeing the Backstop applies directly to them & is the main stumbling block for the current deal. Perhaps people of NI might actually like it? Do the DUP speak for a majority of people? Dont think they do. |  | | |
| A 2nd referendum then on 18:57 - Dec 11 with 3502 views | Vic |
Won’t need when she comes back from Brussels with the backstop sorted. |  |
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| A 2nd referendum then on 18:57 - Dec 11 with 3499 views | bluejacko |
Been there already done. |  | | |
| A 2nd referendum then on 18:59 - Dec 11 with 3485 views | factual_blue |
| A 2nd referendum then on 18:46 - Dec 11 by homer_123 |
Surely the issue Facters is that now we 'know' what we are voting for, then surely a no deal Brexit should be on the ballot? What if the majority still want to leave but not under the deal being offered?
If we are talking about a democratic process (regardless of how we all might personally vote) it's right to have that option on the ballot, now we know what the options are? [Post edited 11 Dec 2018 18:47]
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I don't think anybody knows what a no-deal brexit would mean. Anybody who says they do is an ideology-driven libertarian.
It would be a terrible thing for most people, and sometimes our leaders need to protect people from themselves. | |
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| A 2nd referendum then on 19:00 - Dec 11 with 3477 views | LeoMuff |
| A 2nd referendum then on 18:57 - Dec 11 by bluejacko |
Been there already done. |
Nope, don’t recall Mays deal on the ballot. |  |
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| A 2nd referendum then on 19:01 - Dec 11 with 3476 views | Herbivore |
| A 2nd referendum then on 18:46 - Dec 11 by homer_123 |
Surely the issue Facters is that now we 'know' what we are voting for, then surely a no deal Brexit should be on the ballot? What if the majority still want to leave but not under the deal being offered?
If we are talking about a democratic process (regardless of how we all might personally vote) it's right to have that option on the ballot, now we know what the options are? [Post edited 11 Dec 2018 18:47]
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No, we live in a parliamentary democracy where the government is charged with doing what is best for its citizens (granted it often doesn't seem like it). Given how disastrous a no deal Brexit would be it should not be included on the ballot, it'd be a dereliction of duty. |  |
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| A 2nd referendum then on 19:08 - Dec 11 with 3443 views | Guthrum |
Will only create confusion, waste more time and leave us closer to an unmoderated (and unprepared-for) crash exit.
Even a clear "Remain" outcome (by no means a forgone conclusion) will lead to vast damage to the UK's alrady ailing political processes, in many people's eyes. Won't exactly build trust with the EU, either - who says we aren't going to turn around and do the same thing again in a few years time? |  |
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| A 2nd referendum then on 19:13 - Dec 11 with 3422 views | Herbivore |
| A 2nd referendum then on 19:08 - Dec 11 by Guthrum |
Will only create confusion, waste more time and leave us closer to an unmoderated (and unprepared-for) crash exit.
Even a clear "Remain" outcome (by no means a forgone conclusion) will lead to vast damage to the UK's alrady ailing political processes, in many people's eyes. Won't exactly build trust with the EU, either - who says we aren't going to turn around and do the same thing again in a few years time? |
It's not going to happen anyway, I'm not sure why people think it will. | |
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| A 2nd referendum then on 19:17 - Dec 11 with 3418 views | GlasgowBlue |
If we had a second referendum by GlasgowBlue 11 Jul 2018 15:36what would your preference for format and questions be? I'd have three questions.
1. Accept government deal
2. Stay in
3. Lave with no deal
We would use the second preference system which knocks one option out and eventualy one of the options gets over 50%
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| A 2nd referendum then on 19:22 - Dec 11 with 3391 views | slump |
| A 2nd referendum then on 19:13 - Dec 11 by Herbivore |
It's not going to happen anyway, I'm not sure why people think it will. |
Agreed.
Our PM is one stubborn @rse, she'll come back having presented her Christmas list to the various EU leaders, tell all that's it's been a wonderful success and that parliament should back her. They won't and she'll/we'll fail.
It's embarrassing! |  |
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| A 2nd referendum then on 19:24 - Dec 11 with 3381 views | homer_123 |
| A 2nd referendum then on 19:01 - Dec 11 by Herbivore |
No, we live in a parliamentary democracy where the government is charged with doing what is best for its citizens (granted it often doesn't seem like it). Given how disastrous a no deal Brexit would be it should not be included on the ballot, it'd be a dereliction of duty. |
Charged with and doing doing are two wholly different things. The first referendum never should have taken place.
Exactly how is a no deal worse than the deal May has got? We could be in limbo forever.......without ever being able to legally extract ourselves. Is no deal worse?!
Surely the public deserves the right to choose what it believes is the lesser of two evils, otherwise a second referendum is pointless. | |
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| A 2nd referendum then on 19:25 - Dec 11 with 3378 views | homer_123 |
| A 2nd referendum then on 18:59 - Dec 11 by factual_blue |
I don't think anybody knows what a no-deal brexit would mean. Anybody who says they do is an ideology-driven libertarian.
It would be a terrible thing for most people, and sometimes our leaders need to protect people from themselves. |
No one can categorically say what staying will bring either Facters. Both are unknowns.
That aside for a second, we now that Mays deal could see us forever trapped in a horrible situation, arguably worse than no deal. | |
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| A 2nd referendum then on 19:26 - Dec 11 with 3369 views | Herbivore |
| A 2nd referendum then on 19:24 - Dec 11 by homer_123 |
Charged with and doing doing are two wholly different things. The first referendum never should have taken place.
Exactly how is a no deal worse than the deal May has got? We could be in limbo forever.......without ever being able to legally extract ourselves. Is no deal worse?!
Surely the public deserves the right to choose what it believes is the lesser of two evils, otherwise a second referendum is pointless. |
Yes, a no deal Brexit is worse. It's so bad that no responsible government should consider it as an option. | |
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| A 2nd referendum then on 19:27 - Dec 11 with 3366 views | homer_123 |
| A 2nd referendum then on 19:08 - Dec 11 by Guthrum |
Will only create confusion, waste more time and leave us closer to an unmoderated (and unprepared-for) crash exit.
Even a clear "Remain" outcome (by no means a forgone conclusion) will lead to vast damage to the UK's alrady ailing political processes, in many people's eyes. Won't exactly build trust with the EU, either - who says we aren't going to turn around and do the same thing again in a few years time? |
A Remain result on a much lower turnout could be even worse.
What then?
Mays deal?
Gov just choose to say sod it we are staying? | |
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| A 2nd referendum then on 19:27 - Dec 11 with 3367 views | BloomBlue |
| A 2nd referendum then on 19:01 - Dec 11 by Herbivore |
No, we live in a parliamentary democracy where the government is charged with doing what is best for its citizens (granted it often doesn't seem like it). Given how disastrous a no deal Brexit would be it should not be included on the ballot, it'd be a dereliction of duty. |
But how do you know a hard brexit would be disastrous? |  | | |
| A 2nd referendum then on 19:27 - Dec 11 with 3362 views | Herbivore |
| A 2nd referendum then on 19:25 - Dec 11 by homer_123 |
No one can categorically say what staying will bring either Facters. Both are unknowns.
That aside for a second, we now that Mays deal could see us forever trapped in a horrible situation, arguably worse than no deal. |
That's some false equivocation right there. | |
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| A 2nd referendum then on 19:29 - Dec 11 with 3354 views | SpruceMoose |
| A 2nd referendum then on 19:27 - Dec 11 by BloomBlue |
But how do you know a hard brexit would be disastrous? |
Only the smokiest of gammons believe otherwise at this point. And they would still want a hard brexit even if it meant the country sinking into the sea. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| A 2nd referendum then on 19:29 - Dec 11 with 3351 views | Herbivore |
| A 2nd referendum then on 19:27 - Dec 11 by BloomBlue |
But how do you know a hard brexit would be disastrous? |
Because I have a functioning brain. Just for starters, what is your proposed solution to the NI border issue in a no deal scenario? | |
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| A 2nd referendum then on 19:34 - Dec 11 with 3331 views | Pinewoodblue |
| A 2nd referendum then on 18:59 - Dec 11 by factual_blue |
I don't think anybody knows what a no-deal brexit would mean. Anybody who says they do is an ideology-driven libertarian.
It would be a terrible thing for most people, and sometimes our leaders need to protect people from themselves. |
So anyone who knows what a no deal brexit will mean is an ideology-driven libertarian. you then go on to explain it will be a terrible thing. No need for self abuse |  |
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| A 2nd referendum then on 19:34 - Dec 11 with 3331 views | Guthrum |
| A 2nd referendum then on 19:27 - Dec 11 by homer_123 |
A Remain result on a much lower turnout could be even worse.
What then?
Mays deal?
Gov just choose to say sod it we are staying? |
It'll take a month minimum to organise and hold the Referendum. It isn't even going to start until after Christmas/New Year.
So we'll be at the end of January with some outcome which is unlikely to be clear and decisive (especially if they don't get the question right). Leaving just two months to pass through Parliament and implement whatever they can cobble together to reflect that result, possibly including further negotiations with the EU.
Marvellous. | |
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| A 2nd referendum then on 19:37 - Dec 11 with 3320 views | homer_123 |
| A 2nd referendum then on 19:26 - Dec 11 by Herbivore |
Yes, a no deal Brexit is worse. It's so bad that no responsible government should consider it as an option. |
I'm not convinced it is Herbs.
6 months of chaos? This coming from the same people that said our economy would tank if we merely voted for leave?
The Bank of England's own forecasts over recent years and going further back have been wrong on many occasions and significantly wrong at that.
"It’s a reminder of the enduring damage that George Osborne’s sensationalist presentation of the Treasury’s predictions during the referendum have done. Just as no doctor can tell you how much you’ll weigh next year but can predict with a reasonable degree of accuracy that you will be heavier if you live off fried food and cream cakes than pulses and steamed fish, yes, no one can be sure how Brexit will play out. But we can say with a reasonable degree of accuracy that less trade and more friction — whether in the form of new tariffs or of regulatory, non-tariff barriers — will lead to a smaller British economy than we’d otherwise have."
The question is, is a smaller economy a price worth paying?
Given how wildly wrong most economic forecasts are, why are people so sure about those that relate to Brexit?
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/feb/02/bank-of-england-forecasts-mark-
Look here, the FT reporting the UK economy didn't tank, as predicted...and Carnet having to defend the BoEs position.
https://www.ftadviser.com/investments/2018/02/02/carney-defends-bank-of-england-
40 years ago, forecasts and how they were positioned were flawed....yet oft forgotten
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/sep/02/economic-forecasting-flawed-scienc | |
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