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2nd referendum 22:49 - Sep 19 with 11084 viewsBluefish

Is the only possible next step. I would however pander to the morons and their democracy, I would give 2 options again but this time round I would demand that both sides are fully explained 1st. The options would be hard or soft brexit and I'm sat this as a fierce remainer, I would love to have remain as an option and run it again with clear definitions but it would never be accepted.

How can anyone that apparently believes in democracy not want this complete mess resolved by a public vote to clear it up?

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2nd referendum on 22:53 - Sep 19 with 4732 viewsFreddies_Ears

Because the vote would still be gerrymandered. And most people, irrespective of information provided, would still be ignorant of the implications.
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2nd referendum on 22:56 - Sep 19 with 4720 viewsJ2BLUE

I don't see why hard Brexit needs to be on the ballot. We voted leave, the government will present their best deal. It should be the deal versus remaining with the terms of remain fully explained. Do we still get our opt outs, do we get the deal they offered Cameron or do we have to further integrate?

Truly impaired.
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2nd referendum on 22:57 - Sep 19 with 4721 viewsCurrie10

Why stop at a 2nd.

Why not do a best of 27 series, or better still, a best of 79 series votes.

It's done. It's over.
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2nd referendum on 23:00 - Sep 19 with 4701 viewsBluefish

2nd referendum on 22:57 - Sep 19 by Currie10

Why stop at a 2nd.

Why not do a best of 27 series, or better still, a best of 79 series votes.

It's done. It's over.


Bonkers reply. We voted to leave (I didnt) and both options I presented are to leave, how is that going against it? If it is done and over please explain the terms that we voted for

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2nd referendum on 23:01 - Sep 19 with 4693 viewsBluefish

2nd referendum on 22:56 - Sep 19 by J2BLUE

I don't see why hard Brexit needs to be on the ballot. We voted leave, the government will present their best deal. It should be the deal versus remaining with the terms of remain fully explained. Do we still get our opt outs, do we get the deal they offered Cameron or do we have to further integrate?


The best deal is obviously to stay in though. Was clear from day 1

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2nd referendum on 23:07 - Sep 19 with 4670 viewscaught-in-limbo

2nd referendum on 22:53 - Sep 19 by Freddies_Ears

Because the vote would still be gerrymandered. And most people, irrespective of information provided, would still be ignorant of the implications.


As much as I love the word gerrymander, I don't see how it's applicable here.

And while I have as little faith in the electorate as you, I don't believe the politicians have the ability or inclination to provide good enough information in the first place.

And as much as I want democratic tools like voting to be respected, Brexit isn't ever going to happen.

#toxic
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2nd referendum on 08:56 - Sep 20 with 4499 viewsBluefish

This has 3 down votes but I can't see why. I haven't said to rerun the vote I an saying to do the next step in honouring it. I can't see any negatives

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2nd referendum on 08:58 - Sep 20 with 4490 viewsChondzoresk

One vote was enough. We voted leave, end of conversation.
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2nd referendum on 09:04 - Sep 20 with 4475 viewsITFC_Aylesbury

2nd referendum on 08:58 - Sep 20 by Chondzoresk

One vote was enough. We voted leave, end of conversation.


But we still don't know what leave actually entails, you blathering half-wit!
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2nd referendum on 09:04 - Sep 20 with 4476 viewsitfcjoe

2nd referendum on 08:56 - Sep 20 by Bluefish

This has 3 down votes but I can't see why. I haven't said to rerun the vote I an saying to do the next step in honouring it. I can't see any negatives


It's because a large numbers of brexiteers are thick and frothing at the mouth about anything to do with it and either can't, or won't, read anything that may affect their dream of Brexit and no more immigrants.

All sense is out of the window

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2nd referendum on 09:04 - Sep 20 with 4474 viewsITFC_Forever

2nd referendum on 08:56 - Sep 20 by Bluefish

This has 3 down votes but I can't see why. I haven't said to rerun the vote I an saying to do the next step in honouring it. I can't see any negatives


I don't often comment on the political threads, but I'd say re-run it completely.

The whole vote in the first place was a shambles to appeal to racist morons and then made fools out of a good many more with lie after lie after lie.

Dave brought in the referendum to buy himself some cheap votes to get in again and never dreamed it would go wrong. However it backfired spectacularly and he wasn't seen for dust.

May was dealt a bad hand, but has played it appallingly.

If ever there was a chance for an opposition to capitalise and make the Government untenable, this is it.... yet Labour are so bad and divided by in-fighting, the Conservatives are getting away with it.

Virtually all the MPs in positions of any kind of power seem to be in it for themselves and not the greater good - there is no-one out there that I can say represents me and good many like me.
The only decent one in any kind of authority is Andy Burnham, but he is (wisely) keeping out of the madness in Manchester.
[Post edited 20 Sep 2018 9:44]

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2nd referendum on 09:06 - Sep 20 with 4466 viewsMattinLondon

As much as I think leaving the EU is an absolute mistake we can’t be having referendums every five minutes.

IF leaving the EU is a mistake then the people peddling for the country to leave will be discredited and this will leave the way clear for the U.K to rejoin at any cost - including joining the single currency. Leaving may well result in the country becoming more ingrained in the EU.
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2nd referendum on 09:08 - Sep 20 with 4469 viewsblueblueburleymcgrew

2nd referendum on 22:56 - Sep 19 by J2BLUE

I don't see why hard Brexit needs to be on the ballot. We voted leave, the government will present their best deal. It should be the deal versus remaining with the terms of remain fully explained. Do we still get our opt outs, do we get the deal they offered Cameron or do we have to further integrate?


Hard and soft Brexit only really appeared in the vocabulary after the referendum. The option was leave or stay it couldn’t have been anymore simple in terms of choice at the time.

What’s happened since means it’s hard to put only binary choice on the ballot paper in a second vote. Does stay assume the last deal Cameron negotiated or terms pre that awful deal or does leave mean on Chequers terms or leave on WTO terms since Chequers is only a partial leave.

I struggle with the idea of conceding a second referundum to the very people who by definition refuse to accept the results of a referendum.

My gut feeling is we won’t have a second vote whilst the Tories remain in power and I am not sure what Labours position actually is on a second vote?
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(No subject) (n/t) on 09:10 - Sep 20 with 4436 viewsBluefish

2nd referendum on 08:58 - Sep 20 by Chondzoresk

One vote was enough. We voted leave, end of conversation.



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2nd referendum on 09:10 - Sep 20 with 4429 viewsBluefish

2nd referendum on 08:58 - Sep 20 by Chondzoresk

One vote was enough. We voted leave, end of conversation.


Please do explain what leave means then. Presumably everyone else will have the same understanding as well because we all know? There are so many variables that haven't been voted for because they weren't spelled out. How anyone could vote for something so important without any information is beyond me.....probably because I am not a massive racist though

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2nd referendum on 09:12 - Sep 20 with 4424 viewsBluefish

2nd referendum on 09:08 - Sep 20 by blueblueburleymcgrew

Hard and soft Brexit only really appeared in the vocabulary after the referendum. The option was leave or stay it couldn’t have been anymore simple in terms of choice at the time.

What’s happened since means it’s hard to put only binary choice on the ballot paper in a second vote. Does stay assume the last deal Cameron negotiated or terms pre that awful deal or does leave mean on Chequers terms or leave on WTO terms since Chequers is only a partial leave.

I struggle with the idea of conceding a second referundum to the very people who by definition refuse to accept the results of a referendum.

My gut feeling is we won’t have a second vote whilst the Tories remain in power and I am not sure what Labours position actually is on a second vote?


So you are saying all 52% voted for the same thing? They are enormous variables on how far we go to destroy our finances and jobs. We get the bit that they don't want foreigners living here but that is the only part

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2nd referendum on 09:17 - Sep 20 with 4401 viewsblueblueburleymcgrew

2nd referendum on 09:12 - Sep 20 by Bluefish

So you are saying all 52% voted for the same thing? They are enormous variables on how far we go to destroy our finances and jobs. We get the bit that they don't want foreigners living here but that is the only part


No my message clearly says the choices are now so blurred that you can’t represent everything that’s being proposed/discussed on a ballot paper.

A vote on the Chequers deal is a different scenario to an second in/out referendum.

A vote on the Chequers deal should logically be a choice between that deal and a no deal thereby upholding the the decision of the first referendum to leave, it should be all about the the type of leave deal now.
[Post edited 20 Sep 2018 9:18]
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2nd referendum on 09:21 - Sep 20 with 4370 viewsStokieBlue

There should be another referendum but the choices should be:

- Government proposed deal (this will either be a deal or hard brexit)
- Remain

Totally avoids all the criticisms of not knowing what people were voting for and puts the issue to bed so there aren't calls for continuous referendums.

SB
[Post edited 20 Sep 2018 9:22]

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2nd referendum on 09:27 - Sep 20 with 4346 viewsblueblueburleymcgrew

2nd referendum on 09:21 - Sep 20 by StokieBlue

There should be another referendum but the choices should be:

- Government proposed deal (this will either be a deal or hard brexit)
- Remain

Totally avoids all the criticisms of not knowing what people were voting for and puts the issue to bed so there aren't calls for continuous referendums.

SB
[Post edited 20 Sep 2018 9:22]


But that’s three choices, the deal, leave on WTO terms or remain.

That would not too subtlety split the leave vote.

And what does remain look like, the deal Cameron struck and put to the people or something else?
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2nd referendum on 09:28 - Sep 20 with 4342 viewsStokieBlue

2nd referendum on 09:27 - Sep 20 by blueblueburleymcgrew

But that’s three choices, the deal, leave on WTO terms or remain.

That would not too subtlety split the leave vote.

And what does remain look like, the deal Cameron struck and put to the people or something else?


No it's not, read my post again.

Remain is exactly what we had before all this started (hopefully including our rebates and veto).

SB
[Post edited 20 Sep 2018 9:28]

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2nd referendum on 09:32 - Sep 20 with 4331 viewsBueller

2nd referendum on 09:04 - Sep 20 by ITFC_Forever

I don't often comment on the political threads, but I'd say re-run it completely.

The whole vote in the first place was a shambles to appeal to racist morons and then made fools out of a good many more with lie after lie after lie.

Dave brought in the referendum to buy himself some cheap votes to get in again and never dreamed it would go wrong. However it backfired spectacularly and he wasn't seen for dust.

May was dealt a bad hand, but has played it appallingly.

If ever there was a chance for an opposition to capitalise and make the Government untenable, this is it.... yet Labour are so bad and divided by in-fighting, the Conservatives are getting away with it.

Virtually all the MPs in positions of any kind of power seem to be in it for themselves and not the greater good - there is no-one out there that I can say represents me and good many like me.
The only decent one in any kind of authority is Andy Burnham, but he is (wisely) keeping out of the madness in Manchester.
[Post edited 20 Sep 2018 9:44]


Spot on. I struggled to accept that such a big decision was made with 72% turnout. Surely should be looking for a turnout in the 90s for a clearly picture of where the country really stands. Guess you can't force people to vote, but on the other hand people should feel they want to.
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2nd referendum on 09:33 - Sep 20 with 4321 viewsblueblueburleymcgrew

2nd referendum on 09:28 - Sep 20 by StokieBlue

No it's not, read my post again.

Remain is exactly what we had before all this started (hopefully including our rebates and veto).

SB
[Post edited 20 Sep 2018 9:28]


I assume you mean Parliament votes on Chequers if it’s accepted by them it’s in the ballot paper if it’s not it’s WTO vs Remain? Some would argue that’s kinda what the original choice was. If that’s not what you mean how do you decide what goes on the ballot paper and tell me what does remain look like for a second referendum?
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2nd referendum on 09:34 - Sep 20 with 4315 viewsDarth_Koont

I understand your point.

But it's still one of the silliest decisions and implementations in our history (and one of the most shameful, gutless and self-serving from some of our politicians). Seems utterly bizarre that we shouldn't change our minds based on the "best deal" an incompetent government can come up with.

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2nd referendum on 09:42 - Sep 20 with 4283 viewsStokieBlue

2nd referendum on 09:33 - Sep 20 by blueblueburleymcgrew

I assume you mean Parliament votes on Chequers if it’s accepted by them it’s in the ballot paper if it’s not it’s WTO vs Remain? Some would argue that’s kinda what the original choice was. If that’s not what you mean how do you decide what goes on the ballot paper and tell me what does remain look like for a second referendum?


I don't think it's anything like the original choice, in that choice we didn't know leave was. I thought it was pretty clear, I've already explained what remain was on my last post.

- Government proposal (this will be a brexit deal or WTO terms)
- Remain (status quo as was before the first referendum which was the same as forever since the negioiations didn't work)

It's nothing like the first referendum. In that we had absolutely no idea what the government proposal would have been.

SB

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2nd referendum on 09:46 - Sep 20 with 4262 viewschicoazul

A 2nd referendum would be a massive Leave victory and would guarantee WTO and hard Brexit.

In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
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