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If Hurst wants to stay here for very long he needs to be braver 08:07 - Sep 19 with 3253 viewsSteve_M

Stick to what he wanted to start the season with, trust players and let them get used to playing with each other. I can imagine the pressure to win a match is telling, he'll be very conscious that he's proved nothing yet at this level, but just chucking a load of names in the air and picking the XI that way isn't going to work.

How long had we spent in training playing the back three? It looked like a couple of hours if that, no-one knew who was supposed to be where and it allowed Brentford to pass the ball around us very effectively. The goal summed us up: two chances to bring the ball out from the back, but given away, Doancien makes a goal saving tackle and we still couldn't get the ball away and then they got a little lucky with the deflected cross. It was some header of Maupay though, calmly placed beyond Pennington on the line.

Brentford were very good, particularly in midfield where their use of the ball was both economical and telling. They probably don't have enough of a predatory instinct to really challenge for the top two but they certainly look a top six side. All this on a budget a little bit less than ours, playing consistently better football and finishing above us. That's the big indictment of Evans' approach, it's only ever been about the first-team manager out-performing the budget.

They should have scored more than the one goal though, that they hadn't was the biggest positive at half-time. It was a mess, a friend described it as having all the creativity of a bad McCarthy side without any of the organisation. And yet, one goal always leaves a chance.

At half-time Hurst reverted to the formation we had started the season with, one that immediately looked more comfortable. The back four was fairly solid although clearly exposed by Brentford breaking incisively but that's a risk with committing players forward. It was Knudsen's fierce shot after Wards's lovely pass that changed the mood, it provided a bit of belief on and off the pitch and the team grew from there, fans forgot the grumbles go the first half.

Yes, Brentford could have scored a second on the break but there was a sense that the equaliser when it came was deserved. The third or fourth phase of play after the deep free-kick (and what wasn't a cynical foul from behind a yellow card there?), the ball kept alive twice - once by Nolan and Knudsen and then by Skuse - and a lovely flat cross and a brilliant flicked header. I loved Jackson's little glance to follow the ball in. Another man with something to prove in this division but that goal goes someway towards that.

So, another draw then. As with Villa after a decent second half but after eight matches we've only been ahead for 29 minutes all season. A win still looks a way off but I don't think we can afford for it to take much longer. We have shown that we can look a side already relegated and a decent mid-table one in the space of a couple of matches but without a win there will only be more performances like the former.

The team selection yesterday came across as that of a man under pressure, you don't have to believe the rumours about Hurst having to win this week to save his job but there have been enough noises about him and Doig having upset several senior players and members of staff to suspect Evans might be having second thoughts. In which case, Hurst has to stick to what he believes in, stop being antagonistic to players in some kind of weird macho posturing and play on the front-foot from the start on Saturday.

Ultimately it will be results that dictate his fate but I think that the most disappointing thing about this season, aside from the carelessness in discarding experienced players, has been the lack of structure and pressing. Things that Hurst set great store on at Shrewsbury haven't been seen here for more than a few minutes at a time. That is a worry.
[Post edited 20 Sep 2018 10:03]

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If Hurst wants to stay here for very long he needs to be braver on 08:14 - Sep 19 with 3205 viewsbontcho

With all the ins and outs I forgave the disjointed start to the season. But I was surprised that the international break wasn’t used to drill a team in his style. I expected him to come with a clear plan and pretty stable XI for these few games, but the first two have been far from that. Let’s hope the second half has shown him his tactics and pretty much his XI.

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If Hurst wants to stay here for very long he needs to be braver on 08:37 - Sep 19 with 3151 viewsReuser_is_God

Good report Steve.

If Hurst goes away from what we saw second half yesterday I think it’ll confirm that he doesn’t know what he’s doing.

On the first half I felt Donacien had a decent enough game which is odd given so much of the Brentford play came down his side. They were often 2/3 vs 1 against him. A case of Jonas & one of the CM’s not getting across quick enough to help? Or have I got that wrong & Donacien was all over the the place?
[Post edited 19 Sep 2018 8:37]

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If Hurst wants to stay here for very long he needs to be braver on 08:59 - Sep 19 with 3104 viewssotd78

If Hurst wants to stay here for very long he needs to be braver on 08:37 - Sep 19 by Reuser_is_God

Good report Steve.

If Hurst goes away from what we saw second half yesterday I think it’ll confirm that he doesn’t know what he’s doing.

On the first half I felt Donacien had a decent enough game which is odd given so much of the Brentford play came down his side. They were often 2/3 vs 1 against him. A case of Jonas & one of the CM’s not getting across quick enough to help? Or have I got that wrong & Donacien was all over the the place?
[Post edited 19 Sep 2018 8:37]


I don't see the reason to play a right back on the left when we have two perfectly good left backs. And then to play the one player who has been left out in past games.

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If Hurst wants to stay here for very long he needs to be braver on 09:05 - Sep 19 with 3079 viewsFtnfwest

Agree all that Steve. Brentford are also able it would seem to support a scouting/recruitment side that can pick up players of decent quality across Europe whilst being geographically fortunate to pick up early cast offs from Chelsea etc. Our scouting used to be legendary and along with a strong youth set up was the basis for our success even after the Robson years to a degree. Now scouting seems to be limited to cork and shamrock rovers. Can't imagine why....
[Post edited 19 Sep 2018 9:22]
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If Hurst wants to stay here for very long he needs to be braver on 09:07 - Sep 19 with 3069 viewsHerbivore

If Hurst wants to stay here for very long he needs to be braver on 08:37 - Sep 19 by Reuser_is_God

Good report Steve.

If Hurst goes away from what we saw second half yesterday I think it’ll confirm that he doesn’t know what he’s doing.

On the first half I felt Donacien had a decent enough game which is odd given so much of the Brentford play came down his side. They were often 2/3 vs 1 against him. A case of Jonas & one of the CM’s not getting across quick enough to help? Or have I got that wrong & Donacien was all over the the place?
[Post edited 19 Sep 2018 8:37]


Donacien was all over the place but it wasn't really his fault, he was playing an unfamiliar position and had no real idea where he should be. He was leaving Knudsen exposed and dragging him out of position. He was much better second half, as was Jonas, when they both reverted to their favoured positions.

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If Hurst wants to stay here for very long he needs to be braver on 09:09 - Sep 19 with 3039 viewsLankHenners

If Hurst wants to stay here for very long he needs to be braver on 08:37 - Sep 19 by Reuser_is_God

Good report Steve.

If Hurst goes away from what we saw second half yesterday I think it’ll confirm that he doesn’t know what he’s doing.

On the first half I felt Donacien had a decent enough game which is odd given so much of the Brentford play came down his side. They were often 2/3 vs 1 against him. A case of Jonas & one of the CM’s not getting across quick enough to help? Or have I got that wrong & Donacien was all over the the place?
[Post edited 19 Sep 2018 8:37]


There were a lot of strange, unnatural partnerships all over the pitch and it was so obvious that the players had no idea what they were meant to do. No-one knew when they were meant to push up to challenge a Brentford player or when to sit back and let them come to them meaning Brentford found it very easy to pass around us.

You can see that 1v1 Donacien's a good defender but like everyone else he played like he was unsure of how to play the role he'd been assigned. Poor Chalobah had no clue where he was supposed to stand so whilst Skuse was doing a good job of covering our right, Trevoh didn't know whether to stay centrally or cover the left or what. Donacien's use of the ball was quite wasteful at times I thought but he needs to play consistently to build up some composure and confidence.

Agree that Hurst surely has to see that second half and say, 'right, that's what we need to stick with'. It wasn't perfect by any stretch and will probably fool a few into thinking we played well but it was clear as day that the players had much more of an idea of what they were doing and it allowed us to keep the ball in their half. It was still too slow and a bit messy at times but that can be improved if Hurst gives it the time to.

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If Hurst wants to stay here for very long he needs to be braver on 09:10 - Sep 19 with 3037 viewsReuser_is_God

If Hurst wants to stay here for very long he needs to be braver on 09:07 - Sep 19 by Herbivore

Donacien was all over the place but it wasn't really his fault, he was playing an unfamiliar position and had no real idea where he should be. He was leaving Knudsen exposed and dragging him out of position. He was much better second half, as was Jonas, when they both reverted to their favoured positions.


Yeah good point.

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If Hurst wants to stay here for very long he needs to be braver on 09:10 - Sep 19 with 3033 viewsReuser_is_God

If Hurst wants to stay here for very long he needs to be braver on 08:59 - Sep 19 by sotd78

I don't see the reason to play a right back on the left when we have two perfectly good left backs. And then to play the one player who has been left out in past games.


Yeah that’s fair.

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If Hurst wants to stay here for very long he needs to be braver on 09:14 - Sep 19 with 3002 viewsJakeITFC

If Hurst wants to stay here for very long he needs to be braver on 08:37 - Sep 19 by Reuser_is_God

Good report Steve.

If Hurst goes away from what we saw second half yesterday I think it’ll confirm that he doesn’t know what he’s doing.

On the first half I felt Donacien had a decent enough game which is odd given so much of the Brentford play came down his side. They were often 2/3 vs 1 against him. A case of Jonas & one of the CM’s not getting across quick enough to help? Or have I got that wrong & Donacien was all over the the place?
[Post edited 19 Sep 2018 8:37]


Nothing to do with Donacien - we played a back five against three up which meant we had to have all five of them narrow which allowed the full backs of Brentford all of the time in the world - this meant our wing-backs were constantly coming from a central area out to meet them, which in turn left an easy ball inside to one of the forwards on the inside channel.

It really was an absolute disaster of a first half - the shape didn't work in any possible way, and to hear Hurst's thoughts on it after was a touch worrying (as in deliberately changing to that shape to stop Brentford).
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If Hurst wants to stay here for very long he needs to be braver on 09:20 - Sep 19 with 2964 viewsitfcjoe

If Hurst wants to stay here for very long he needs to be braver on 09:14 - Sep 19 by JakeITFC

Nothing to do with Donacien - we played a back five against three up which meant we had to have all five of them narrow which allowed the full backs of Brentford all of the time in the world - this meant our wing-backs were constantly coming from a central area out to meet them, which in turn left an easy ball inside to one of the forwards on the inside channel.

It really was an absolute disaster of a first half - the shape didn't work in any possible way, and to hear Hurst's thoughts on it after was a touch worrying (as in deliberately changing to that shape to stop Brentford).


I made Donacien my MOTM and had him up in sponsors lounge, slightly ahead of Pennington who was probably more deserving.

Thought he did well in both halves, probably the defender who used the ball best up the field and was only really caught out by one run in the first half.

Need to get him starting back at RB, is a proper player.

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If Hurst wants to stay here for very long he needs to be braver on 19:37 - Sep 19 with 2745 viewscbower

Your final paragraph is spot on for me. I was excited about the prospect of a high energy, press from the front approach to underpin a more offensive pattern of play. It has only been apparent in fits and starts and even the the lack of structure and coordination between the players has been appalling. Walters at Hull charging after stuff all alone was as bad as it gets. Maybe the second half last night can herald more of the approach I had hoped to see.

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If Hurst wants to stay here for very long he needs to be braver on 22:21 - Sep 19 with 2650 viewsYallop

I normally enjoy your comments Steve but you lost me with 'Hurst needs to stop being antagonistic to players in some kind of weird macho posturing'.

I see plenty of that on here but I'm not sure it's fair to accuse PH of it.
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If Hurst wants to stay here for very long he needs to be braver on 08:46 - Sep 20 with 2521 viewsSteve_M

If Hurst wants to stay here for very long he needs to be braver on 19:37 - Sep 19 by cbower

Your final paragraph is spot on for me. I was excited about the prospect of a high energy, press from the front approach to underpin a more offensive pattern of play. It has only been apparent in fits and starts and even the the lack of structure and coordination between the players has been appalling. Walters at Hull charging after stuff all alone was as bad as it gets. Maybe the second half last night can herald more of the approach I had hoped to see.


Yes, that's been a concern right from the start of the season. As soon as Blackburn equalised all sense of organisation disappeared and things were largely a mess until Edun and, later, Morris came on to add fresh energy. I hope we can build on last night but I thought the same after Villa...

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If Hurst wants to stay here for very long he needs to be braver on 08:48 - Sep 20 with 2518 viewsSteve_M

If Hurst wants to stay here for very long he needs to be braver on 22:21 - Sep 19 by Yallop

I normally enjoy your comments Steve but you lost me with 'Hurst needs to stop being antagonistic to players in some kind of weird macho posturing'.

I see plenty of that on here but I'm not sure it's fair to accuse PH of it.


I think his public comments on Chambers, Knudsen and Adeyemi point very much in that direction but it's also clear now that Hurst and Doig have made things more difficult for themselves with senior players and staff by their approach.

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If Hurst wants to stay here for very long he needs to be braver on 08:58 - Sep 20 with 2495 viewsRadlett_blue

If Hurst wants to stay here for very long he needs to be braver on 08:14 - Sep 19 by bontcho

With all the ins and outs I forgave the disjointed start to the season. But I was surprised that the international break wasn’t used to drill a team in his style. I expected him to come with a clear plan and pretty stable XI for these few games, but the first two have been far from that. Let’s hope the second half has shown him his tactics and pretty much his XI.


The Hull game seemed something of a watershed as Hurst clearly seemed to have panicked & was desperate to get a win. Conceding a sloppy, early goal clearly didn't help.
His selection for the starting XI on Tuesday was roundly criticised before the game started & seemed completely bonkers. At least he had the sense to change things; hope he doesn't tinker too much for Saturday. Part of the problem is he has too many players to choose from - 27 used so far this season despite the absences of Huws & Adeyemi - but that's largely a problem of his own making.

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If Hurst wants to stay here for very long he needs to be braver on 12:16 - Sep 20 with 2298 viewsKeaneish

Braver? He's utilised five different formations, left out key players, dropped big names and changed his system if its not going well at half time. Not sure what else he need to do to show bravery.

Kudos to him. he's definitely not hiding and trying out new things to get it right which i'm all in favour of.

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If Hurst wants to stay here for very long he needs to be braver on 12:21 - Sep 20 with 2276 viewsITFCBlues

If Hurst wants to stay here for very long he needs to be braver on 08:59 - Sep 19 by sotd78

I don't see the reason to play a right back on the left when we have two perfectly good left backs. And then to play the one player who has been left out in past games.


He played a lot of games at LB last season. It’s not as left field as you may believe

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