| So the first international break of the season 13:31 - Sep 3 with 6131 views | JakeITFC |
Probably a fair time to assess our start.
Positives:
- Edwards looks a real find, magnificent ability to beat a man in either direction, full of confidence and the end product doesn't look too far away
- We've added a lot of genuine pace to the side which is something that has been lacking
- The atmosphere around the place has improved massively and I think a lot of people seem impressed with a lot of what Hurst says, even if it hasn't materialised yet on the pitch.
Negatives:
- The size of the squad overhaul
- The lack of experience in the squad due to the overhaul
- The playing style/pressing promised hasn't really been evident for much of the time
- Six loanees
- Making wholesale changes to personnel and shape before the Norwich game suggests he's not particularly sure in his system/squad
- Not using youth players
- Upsetting the apple cart with media comments (Knudsen/Chambers in pre-season, Dozzell loan talk, post-Exeter remarks)
I realise that my list of negatives is much longer than the positives, and being that most people seem quite happy with him there are probably some things that I've missed that other fans are impressed by.
It's my opinion that it's not been a particularly good start to life at the club for Hurst, and giving his willingness to deviate from his ideas this early it's quite a big worry that he is out of his depth. Hope to be proven wrong. |  | | |  |
| So the first international break of the season on 13:38 - Sep 3 with 4178 views | FrimleyBlue |
The thing i'm trying to understand is Evans
" Something different"
It's not really that different..................
We've taken risks with players from lower leagues... mick did this
we've loaned in players, mick did this
we sold our best players, mick did this
We're playing our own youngsters, oh hang on. |  |
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| So the first international break of the season on 13:51 - Sep 3 with 4140 views | Reuser_is_God |
Agree with what you say but a few points.....
'The lack of experience in the squad due to the overhaul' - something he seems to be looking at with Walters & possibly Collins.
'The playing style/pressing promised hasn't really been evident for much of the time' - the biggest of the negatives IMO, hope this will be rectified over the break.
'Upsetting the apple cart with media comments (Knudsen/Chambers in pre-season, Dozzell loan talk, post-Exeter remarks)' - Not sure he really upset the apple cart. Knudsen/Chambers comments were just your usual new manager clean slate etc cliche you get, Dozzell loan talk was curtailed due to the tests they done finding deficiencies around his knee so they decided it best to keep him here under our care & the Exeter remarks were needed IMO & got a reaction with a good performance against Villa. |  |
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| So the first international break of the season on 13:53 - Sep 3 with 4130 views | Darth_Koont |
The biggest negative is the results and that we're going to have a season where we're constantly wary of the drop unless we get clear of the relegation zone quickly.
I'd also like to hope that with better results comes confidence so that we'll be pressing higher up the pitch more - and more consistently causing the opposition problems. At the moment, we look far too passive as a unit and actually looked better at the start of the second half when we went direct and forced Norwich back.
Stuff the purist style points but for once we looked a real threat and the game was exciting. It's important that we show that pragmatic side more. |  |
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| So the first international break of the season on 13:57 - Sep 3 with 4110 views | JakeITFC |
| So the first international break of the season on 13:51 - Sep 3 by Reuser_is_God |
Agree with what you say but a few points.....
'The lack of experience in the squad due to the overhaul' - something he seems to be looking at with Walters & possibly Collins.
'The playing style/pressing promised hasn't really been evident for much of the time' - the biggest of the negatives IMO, hope this will be rectified over the break.
'Upsetting the apple cart with media comments (Knudsen/Chambers in pre-season, Dozzell loan talk, post-Exeter remarks)' - Not sure he really upset the apple cart. Knudsen/Chambers comments were just your usual new manager clean slate etc cliche you get, Dozzell loan talk was curtailed due to the tests they done finding deficiencies around his knee so they decided it best to keep him here under our care & the Exeter remarks were needed IMO & got a reaction with a good performance against Villa. |
Without sounding like a dick, I know for a fact that he has upset players with comments he’s made. | | | |
| So the first international break of the season on 13:59 - Sep 3 with 4089 views | Reuser_is_God |
| So the first international break of the season on 13:57 - Sep 3 by JakeITFC |
Without sounding like a dick, I know for a fact that he has upset players with comments he’s made. |
Fair enough.
He may have upset some but I don't think it's affected anything as such, I've not seen anything in performance to suggest they're not playing for him.
I'm not bothered if he's upset a few, it's bound to happen. | |
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| So the first international break of the season on 14:02 - Sep 3 with 4082 views | Guthrum |
'Not using youth players' is only valid as a negative if they're actually good enough and better than what we have. And they have to be fully fit.
They may have more specifically Championship experience than the new recruits, but only by a handful of appearances and they're way behind many of the latter's overall senior competitive records. Even Chalobah and Edun have vastly more youth international experience than all but Dozzell. Our youth are all still comparatively early in their development as first team-ready players.
They may have performed reasonably well under difficult circumstances last season, but it wasn't consistent, we didn't actually win many of those games and they broke down physically or got injured in tackles.
There's no point in playing Academy products purely for sentimental reasons unless they're actually going to improve the team at the same time. |  |
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| So the first international break of the season on 14:05 - Sep 3 with 4061 views | Guthrum |
| So the first international break of the season on 13:57 - Sep 3 by JakeITFC |
Without sounding like a dick, I know for a fact that he has upset players with comments he’s made. |
That may be so, but he's the manager and that's part of his job. You can be as chummy as you like most of the time, but when shouting's got to be done, none of the great managers have ever shied away from it (c.f. Alex Ferguson's famous "hairdryer"). | |
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| So the first international break of the season on 14:06 - Sep 3 with 4060 views | JakeITFC |
| So the first international break of the season on 13:59 - Sep 3 by Reuser_is_God |
Fair enough.
He may have upset some but I don't think it's affected anything as such, I've not seen anything in performance to suggest they're not playing for him.
I'm not bothered if he's upset a few, it's bound to happen. |
I guess it’s more medium/long-term - contract renewals, potential for new signings being put off if they speak to our players, young players seeing their path to the first team blocked a bit more etc.
Obviously extreme, but if we are sacrificing a lot of potential good things about the club in favour of Paul Hurts’s way of working, it’s difficult to see what the positives are with that decision atm. | | | |
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| So the first international break of the season on 14:07 - Sep 3 with 4054 views | FrimleyBlue |
| So the first international break of the season on 14:06 - Sep 3 by JakeITFC |
I guess it’s more medium/long-term - contract renewals, potential for new signings being put off if they speak to our players, young players seeing their path to the first team blocked a bit more etc.
Obviously extreme, but if we are sacrificing a lot of potential good things about the club in favour of Paul Hurts’s way of working, it’s difficult to see what the positives are with that decision atm. |
I don't think we're that far away from seeing our skipper dropped tbh, that is when the sht hits the fan I think. | |
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| So the first international break of the season on 14:09 - Sep 3 with 4044 views | JakeITFC |
| So the first international break of the season on 14:05 - Sep 3 by Guthrum |
That may be so, but he's the manager and that's part of his job. You can be as chummy as you like most of the time, but when shouting's got to be done, none of the great managers have ever shied away from it (c.f. Alex Ferguson's famous "hairdryer"). |
Is it though?
When you’ve made 12 signings with very little experience of football at this level I would probably suggest alienating your senior pros is a very risky strategy. | | | |
| So the first international break of the season on 14:10 - Sep 3 with 4026 views | FrimleyBlue |
| So the first international break of the season on 14:05 - Sep 3 by Guthrum |
That may be so, but he's the manager and that's part of his job. You can be as chummy as you like most of the time, but when shouting's got to be done, none of the great managers have ever shied away from it (c.f. Alex Ferguson's famous "hairdryer"). |
But then Keane was vocal........................ | |
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| So the first international break of the season on 14:26 - Sep 3 with 3976 views | Steve_M |
Broadly agree with that.
To positives I would add:
- players getting forward in numbers, it's not working all the time but is notable when it happens i.e. first 20 of second half yesterday.
- I think most of the signings are promising and have potential to develop. That there are too many of them at one time is the problem.
- use of sports science by the first team. Yes, it still has to be used to a purpose but that should establish something here for the longer term.
And to the negatives:
- inability to play for 90 minutes so far. That should come but it is a problem so far.
There are good passages of play, hints at what Hurst wants to do but not enough of it and it's not consistent enough so far. We need to win a couple of matches soon to allow that to continue to improve without being under real relegation pressure. |  |
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| So the first international break of the season on 14:36 - Sep 3 with 3928 views | hype313 |
| So the first international break of the season on 14:05 - Sep 3 by Guthrum |
That may be so, but he's the manager and that's part of his job. You can be as chummy as you like most of the time, but when shouting's got to be done, none of the great managers have ever shied away from it (c.f. Alex Ferguson's famous "hairdryer"). |
I don't think you can compare Fergie's "Hairdryer" treatment to Hurst, Fergie had built a dynasty at one of the worlds biggest clubs with a record haul of trophies, players knew if they didn't toe the line they would be out, he had that authority and respect due to his record.
Hurst on the other hand has achieved nothing as yet, he got an unfancied team into the play off final, which by all accounts given the disparity between them and others was a real feat, however, to come in and give the account he has is a real gamble.
One thing Mick left was squad unity, all Hurst had to do was build on that team spirit, he has completely ripped the team apart and only time will tell if that is a good or bad decision. |  |
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| So the first international break of the season on 14:41 - Sep 3 with 3891 views | FrimleyBlue |
| So the first international break of the season on 14:36 - Sep 3 by hype313 |
I don't think you can compare Fergie's "Hairdryer" treatment to Hurst, Fergie had built a dynasty at one of the worlds biggest clubs with a record haul of trophies, players knew if they didn't toe the line they would be out, he had that authority and respect due to his record.
Hurst on the other hand has achieved nothing as yet, he got an unfancied team into the play off final, which by all accounts given the disparity between them and others was a real feat, however, to come in and give the account he has is a real gamble.
One thing Mick left was squad unity, all Hurst had to do was build on that team spirit, he has completely ripped the team apart and only time will tell if that is a good or bad decision. |
This is the thing isn't it
The side needed a lift. but no real changes were needed.
I feel like we were under Keane where he suddenly ripped out everything Jim had put together. Us fans were like just add 2 or 3.
Just think how good this team would be if instead of Harrison, Jackson, Roberts, Graham, We just added Edwards into the side with Waghorn............. | |
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| So the first international break of the season on 14:44 - Sep 3 with 3883 views | Reuser_is_God |
| So the first international break of the season on 14:09 - Sep 3 by JakeITFC |
Is it though?
When you’ve made 12 signings with very little experience of football at this level I would probably suggest alienating your senior pros is a very risky strategy. |
He’s hardly alienated them has he? | |
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| So the first international break of the season on 15:48 - Sep 3 with 3791 views | Buyoutclause |
I think the main thing to take away from these first six games is the fact that the players from yesterday have had such little time to get to know their new team-mates and the manager's style of play.
Yesterday's team had 4 staters from our final pre-season match against West Ham (Spence, Chambers, Knudsen and Edwards), and just 2 from the Barnet match a week earlier (Skuse and Chambers).
I think it's very difficult to assess this start, as it feels like what we have seen in these 6 games is unlikely to replicated in the next 40.
These two weeks seems like Pre-Season 2, but this time with the squad as it is now being the squad we will have going forward. |  | | |
| So the first international break of the season on 15:57 - Sep 3 with 3768 views | homer_123 |
Stating the bleeding obvious but.
Negatives.
We haven't won a game
We've shown worrying signs of not being able to defend a lead
Confidence is now an issue as a result of the above
Positives.
The general feel of the place is markedly better
We can see what Hurst is trying to do [Post edited 3 Sep 2018 15:59]
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| So the first international break of the season on 16:00 - Sep 3 with 3750 views | Guthrum |
| So the first international break of the season on 14:36 - Sep 3 by hype313 |
I don't think you can compare Fergie's "Hairdryer" treatment to Hurst, Fergie had built a dynasty at one of the worlds biggest clubs with a record haul of trophies, players knew if they didn't toe the line they would be out, he had that authority and respect due to his record.
Hurst on the other hand has achieved nothing as yet, he got an unfancied team into the play off final, which by all accounts given the disparity between them and others was a real feat, however, to come in and give the account he has is a real gamble.
One thing Mick left was squad unity, all Hurst had to do was build on that team spirit, he has completely ripped the team apart and only time will tell if that is a good or bad decision. |
Do you think that Ferguson never got fierce with his players before he'd won trophies?
It's not about respect due to success, but instead the authority of his position. Hurst is the manager, the players are under him.
If the players feel the criticism is unjustified, prove it on the pitch. | |
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| So the first international break of the season on 16:05 - Sep 3 with 3727 views | hype313 |
| So the first international break of the season on 16:00 - Sep 3 by Guthrum |
Do you think that Ferguson never got fierce with his players before he'd won trophies?
It's not about respect due to success, but instead the authority of his position. Hurst is the manager, the players are under him.
If the players feel the criticism is unjustified, prove it on the pitch. |
Fergie did have to get fierce from the outset, they had a serious drinking problem with McGrath and Whiteside not able to play games due to not recovering, Hurst hasn't had to deal with anything like that, in fact he walked into a really hardworking harmonious squad, just in need of a different direction. | |
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| So the first international break of the season on 16:08 - Sep 3 with 3716 views | Lesta_Tractor |
You missed a positive...
Unbeaten at home  |  |
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| So the first international break of the season on 16:20 - Sep 3 with 3688 views | Mullet |
| So the first international break of the season on 16:05 - Sep 3 by hype313 |
Fergie did have to get fierce from the outset, they had a serious drinking problem with McGrath and Whiteside not able to play games due to not recovering, Hurst hasn't had to deal with anything like that, in fact he walked into a really hardworking harmonious squad, just in need of a different direction. |
This myth that Hurst inherited a mess/terrible squad/problems etc. seems to be self-perpetuating, although I don't think that's Guffers' intention here. However, it's fairly pointless comparing him to SAF at any point as it's too early and unfair to do so.
He's certainly had it better than most if not all managers under Evans on and off the field. Likewise I'm sure no one is really happy that we're bottom of the league, despite some of the more delusional protesters - but the realisation that our problems are not and were not simply down to Mick alone, should dawn on everyone soon enough.
Dropping in one of league position, style, use of youths etc. is fine especially in the short term, but he'll need to get results soon enough too. It's a fine balancing act the longer the run goes on. I think we'll see Hurst really come into his own in the next few games. |  |
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| So the first international break of the season on 16:27 - Sep 3 with 3667 views | HarryWright |
| So the first international break of the season on 14:36 - Sep 3 by hype313 |
I don't think you can compare Fergie's "Hairdryer" treatment to Hurst, Fergie had built a dynasty at one of the worlds biggest clubs with a record haul of trophies, players knew if they didn't toe the line they would be out, he had that authority and respect due to his record.
Hurst on the other hand has achieved nothing as yet, he got an unfancied team into the play off final, which by all accounts given the disparity between them and others was a real feat, however, to come in and give the account he has is a real gamble.
One thing Mick left was squad unity, all Hurst had to do was build on that team spirit, he has completely ripped the team apart and only time will tell if that is a good or bad decision. |
haha stop being so dramatic. Another thing Mick left? a team who could barely pass a football and had been trained to HOOF |  | | |
| So the first international break of the season on 16:28 - Sep 3 with 3654 views | hype313 |
| So the first international break of the season on 16:27 - Sep 3 by HarryWright |
haha stop being so dramatic. Another thing Mick left? a team who could barely pass a football and had been trained to HOOF |
And I'm being dramatic.
I said one thing, not another thing. | |
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| So the first international break of the season on 16:43 - Sep 3 with 3605 views | itfctim |
I think this international break is pivotal for our season. After 2 weeks of training , bonding, working on the style of play etc, there will be no excuses for continued lack of points. | | | |
| So the first international break of the season on 16:46 - Sep 3 with 3590 views | Kieran_Knows |
Think that's a fair assessment, although just a couple of small things.
Squad overhaul? I'm not so sure it was an overhaul as such, just replacing players. We lost 9 players due to contracts expiring and loan players returning to their clubs, followed by the sales of Webster, Waghorn and Garner. Whether we've replaced them correctly is another matter, but they needed replacing.
You mention that you know for a fact that some players haven't been happy with certain remarks (appreciate that you won't say who of course), but I'd be interested to know if its any of his new 12 signings, or players that were here last season that feel way?
Either way, think this is a big couple of weeks for PH to finally find a settled 11 that he can depend on and really hammer home his ideas. |  |
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