| 80% of UK growth from Immigration 06:51 - Aug 23 with 51671 views | Benters2 |
Four Fifths of the UK's population growth over the past fifteen years was due to Immigration.
How is it ever going to work?
How can we ever keep up building houses?
Is the NHS struggling?
Does being worried about this make me a Racist? |  | | |  |
| 80% of UK growth from Immigration on 08:37 - Aug 23 with 4335 views | connorscontract |
| 80% of UK growth from Immigration on 08:07 - Aug 23 by connorscontract |
Are you sure you want to do this today?
You've been shown a lot of love from people on all sides of debates on here- do you really want to cast yourself into you against the world?
To give a few answers:
1. One of the most significant flows of migrants in recent years has been those coming from war torn Middle Eastern countries as refugees. When we went over there, bombing their houses, schools and markets, and created a political vaccuum by pursuing a policy of regime change in Iraq and Afghanistan which allowed ISIS/Daesh to flourish, do we not need to share the burden of housing the refugees? (Legally, yes, as we signed up to UN conventions saying we do, or shall we just become a country which breaks it's legal commitments?)
2. On a related note: Afghani interpreters who worked alongside British troops. Would you let them in?
3. Gurkhas from Nepal, who served the Queen in the British Army. Thousands of them were let in in recent years. Do you agree with that?
4. Filipinos, for example, have been recruited in large numbers to fill gaps in the NHS. Without them we would be in an even bigger NHS crisis. Should we "send them home"?
5. The Baby Boom post-WW2 means that we have an ageing population. Other demographic trends such as low birth rates, people having babies later, and people living longer amplify this. Without immigration, who would work to provide the National Insurance contributions to pay for the NHS and Social Care for our parents' generation? And where would we find those fit and able enough to work in the NHS and in Social Care?
One solution to this "demographic timebomb" has seen the pension age go up from 60 for women and 65 for men to 67. Without working age immigrants that would need to go even higher to rebalance the NI contributions deficit. If the price of lower immigration was you not being able to retire until you were 75, would you be prepared to pay it?
6. The Polish children in the primary school where I used to be a Governor work hard, and their parents support the Head and Staff, and encourage their children to make the most of the opportunity. Their results have helped the School move up to "Good" in the Ofsted ratings. They are going to be an asset to this country and have been brought up integrating well into our society. Are you going to tell them that they have to "go home", or do you want me to do that? |
Come and join the debate, Pinewood Blue, rather than just down arrow.
I asked questions about six different flows of immigration. Which of them would you "kick out"? | | | |
| 80% of UK growth from Immigration on 08:38 - Aug 23 with 4335 views | itfcjoe |
| 80% of UK growth from Immigration on 08:34 - Aug 23 by connorscontract |
Governments have tried structural changes. Raising the pension age is one. How high donwe want it to go?
Another significant one was the introduction of Child Tax Credit by Gordon Brown under Blair. This made a significant contribution in encouraging people (let's be honest, women) to have children, and work part-time to enable both family/work balance and career continuation.
The Coalition made drastic cuts to Tax Credits as part of the Austerity policies, and the Conservative May Government has followed through with Cameron and Osborne's replacement of Tax Credits with Universal Credit. So Tory policy has been to undermine structural approaches to the demographic crisis in this area, as in housing. |
Higher tax rates at all levels
Stop the sham where Governments have to pay top ups in wages to people working for huge multinationals that don't pay enough
Build more social housing as part of a 'UK Plc' and upskill residents as opposed to just flogging land off to developers
I don't know, sure loads of other things that can be done - but the economy is a ponzi scheme where immigrants are having to come in every year to prop it up, and a huge number are doing jobs that should be done by the indiginous population but are deemed too sh*t. |  |
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| 80% of UK growth from Immigration on 08:39 - Aug 23 with 4332 views | hype313 |
Why are you worried about the lack of housing? surely you should be happy that prices keep rising exponentially..
If you're worried about the NHS, you should have worked harder and got Private healthcare. [Post edited 23 Aug 2018 8:44]
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| 80% of UK growth from Immigration on 08:42 - Aug 23 with 4321 views | noggin |
| 80% of UK growth from Immigration on 08:39 - Aug 23 by hype313 |
Why are you worried about the lack of housing? surely you should be happy that prices keep rising exponentially..
If you're worried about the NHS, you should have worked harder and got Private healthcare. [Post edited 23 Aug 2018 8:44]
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The ironic thing is, Benters admitted that he had received excellent treatment and care from foreigners when he was ill. |  |
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| 80% of UK growth from Immigration on 08:44 - Aug 23 with 4316 views | hype313 |
| 80% of UK growth from Immigration on 08:42 - Aug 23 by noggin |
The ironic thing is, Benters admitted that he had received excellent treatment and care from foreigners when he was ill. |
Yeah, but no, but yeah, but no..... | |
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| 80% of UK growth from Immigration on 08:46 - Aug 23 with 4308 views | noggin |
| 80% of UK growth from Immigration on 08:44 - Aug 23 by hype313 |
Yeah, but no, but yeah, but no..... |
Balls. Rule Britannia. | |
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| 80% of UK growth from Immigration on 08:46 - Aug 23 with 4306 views | connorscontract |
| 80% of UK growth from Immigration on 08:42 - Aug 23 by noggin |
The ironic thing is, Benters admitted that he had received excellent treatment and care from foreigners when he was ill. |
He buried his mum two days ago. Let's try and de-personalise it and cut him some slack. | | | |
| 80% of UK growth from Immigration on 08:47 - Aug 23 with 4293 views | noggin |
| 80% of UK growth from Immigration on 08:46 - Aug 23 by connorscontract |
He buried his mum two days ago. Let's try and de-personalise it and cut him some slack. |
He started this thread to get a reaction. He does it all the time. | |
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| 80% of UK growth from Immigration on 08:48 - Aug 23 with 4290 views | Pinewoodblue |
| 80% of UK growth from Immigration on 08:21 - Aug 23 by itfcjoe |
It's short sighted from the Government - rather than try and make structural changes to the country to try and cope with aging population they just get more and more immigrants in to cover the short fall - it's basically a big Ponzi scheme.
But we are now in a position where we need immigration to pay the bills, but yet even though they are net contributors (as a whole they pay more tax than they take) services like schools, hospitals, and the like are struggling because there isn't enough investment in them.
Immigrants absolutely prop up our country, but get the blame for things because they are an easy target. |
The best description Ihave seen of the countries current plight and not a political doctrine in sight.
Too many, on the left and on the right, contribute solely by quoting their party's line, hence by down vote to Connorscontract. Form your own opinion don't allow yourself to be brainwashed.Liked your comment about the polish school kids, same can be said for children of Asian decent.
Looking ahead I am not convinced any of the current political parties has the courage needed to turn things around. Immigrants are net contributors to the Country but only because we are not spending what is needed on infrastructure.
Taxes need to rise across the board Tax on companies needs a serious overhaul, too many sectors are being hit by property taxes while others avoid paying their fair share. The biggest problem with finding a solution is the way company tax law is written. Experts from large accountancy firms work on secondment for the Treasury then return to their employers knowing precisely how tax can be avoided. |  |
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| 80% of UK growth from Immigration on 08:48 - Aug 23 with 4289 views | hype313 |
| 80% of UK growth from Immigration on 08:46 - Aug 23 by connorscontract |
He buried his mum two days ago. Let's try and de-personalise it and cut him some slack. |
To be fair, most of us reached out to him over that awful news and gave our condolences.
We are just replying to his post, which has nothing to do with his awful loss of his mother. | |
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| 80% of UK growth from Immigration on 08:58 - Aug 23 with 4251 views | Benters2 |
| 80% of UK growth from Immigration on 08:48 - Aug 23 by hype313 |
To be fair, most of us reached out to him over that awful news and gave our condolences.
We are just replying to his post, which has nothing to do with his awful loss of his mother. |
Of course you did and i was very grateful for all the lovely messages and texts.
Also those smashing people i saw at the Blackburn game the other weeks,all good eggs.
I just feel angry now about life in general. [Post edited 23 Aug 2018 9:04]
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| 80% of UK growth from Immigration on 08:59 - Aug 23 with 4244 views | connorscontract |
| 80% of UK growth from Immigration on 08:48 - Aug 23 by hype313 |
To be fair, most of us reached out to him over that awful news and gave our condolences.
We are just replying to his post, which has nothing to do with his awful loss of his mother. |
As I said at the top of my initial post, but just a reminder, really. Noggin didn't go anywhere near crossing a line and it wasn't intended as a criticism, but I just thought any talk of his personal experiences of NHS care might be a bit close to home at the moment. | | | |
| 80% of UK growth from Immigration on 09:05 - Aug 23 with 4223 views | Benters2 |
| 80% of UK growth from Immigration on 08:59 - Aug 23 by connorscontract |
As I said at the top of my initial post, but just a reminder, really. Noggin didn't go anywhere near crossing a line and it wasn't intended as a criticism, but I just thought any talk of his personal experiences of NHS care might be a bit close to home at the moment. |
Please dont worry im fine with everything x | | | |
| 80% of UK growth from Immigration on 09:08 - Aug 23 with 4222 views | stickymockwell |
| 80% of UK growth from Immigration on 07:25 - Aug 23 by Benters2 |
When i was a Child,my mum had four children,she brought us all up and worked picking apples and other fruit on the fruit farms.
Why is it mainly foreign people doing that now? |
So if every couple was like your parents, then the population would increase by 100% on every generation (say every 25-30 years). That would mean by 2045 the population would be 150 million. |  |
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| 80% of UK growth from Immigration on 09:15 - Aug 23 with 4208 views | Keno |
Thats good then
The economy would be well f4cked it it relied just on the 20% growth from non-immigration |  |
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| 80% of UK growth from Immigration on 09:24 - Aug 23 with 4197 views | SomethingBlue |
No, but it makes me as curious as ever about your lack of sympathy and goodwill towards your fellow man. | |
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| 80% of UK growth from Immigration on 09:32 - Aug 23 with 4175 views | BrixtonBlue |
| 80% of UK growth from Immigration on 08:07 - Aug 23 by connorscontract |
Are you sure you want to do this today?
You've been shown a lot of love from people on all sides of debates on here- do you really want to cast yourself into you against the world?
To give a few answers:
1. One of the most significant flows of migrants in recent years has been those coming from war torn Middle Eastern countries as refugees. When we went over there, bombing their houses, schools and markets, and created a political vaccuum by pursuing a policy of regime change in Iraq and Afghanistan which allowed ISIS/Daesh to flourish, do we not need to share the burden of housing the refugees? (Legally, yes, as we signed up to UN conventions saying we do, or shall we just become a country which breaks it's legal commitments?)
2. On a related note: Afghani interpreters who worked alongside British troops. Would you let them in?
3. Gurkhas from Nepal, who served the Queen in the British Army. Thousands of them were let in in recent years. Do you agree with that?
4. Filipinos, for example, have been recruited in large numbers to fill gaps in the NHS. Without them we would be in an even bigger NHS crisis. Should we "send them home"?
5. The Baby Boom post-WW2 means that we have an ageing population. Other demographic trends such as low birth rates, people having babies later, and people living longer amplify this. Without immigration, who would work to provide the National Insurance contributions to pay for the NHS and Social Care for our parents' generation? And where would we find those fit and able enough to work in the NHS and in Social Care?
One solution to this "demographic timebomb" has seen the pension age go up from 60 for women and 65 for men to 67. Without working age immigrants that would need to go even higher to rebalance the NI contributions deficit. If the price of lower immigration was you not being able to retire until you were 75, would you be prepared to pay it?
6. The Polish children in the primary school where I used to be a Governor work hard, and their parents support the Head and Staff, and encourage their children to make the most of the opportunity. Their results have helped the School move up to "Good" in the Ofsted ratings. They are going to be an asset to this country and have been brought up integrating well into our society. Are you going to tell them that they have to "go home", or do you want me to do that? |
This is an excellent post but not a surprise that an hour and a half later Benters hasn't responded to it. He doesn't want a debate. |  |
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| 80% of UK growth from Immigration on 09:33 - Aug 23 with 4172 views | Keno |
| 80% of UK growth from Immigration on 09:32 - Aug 23 by BrixtonBlue |
This is an excellent post but not a surprise that an hour and a half later Benters hasn't responded to it. He doesn't want a debate. |
to be honest it hasn't got enough pictures or soundbites for him | |
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| 80% of UK growth from Immigration on 09:35 - Aug 23 with 4168 views | EdwardStone |
Specifically about housing
Local Planning Authorities have played a shocking role in our current housing situation.
We need to build some 200-250 thousand new homes per year to keep up with demand so that everyone can have a decent affordable home. For the last 20 years we have only managed some 80 - 100 thousand. So we now have a shocking shortfall. The LPAs could and should have seen this emerging situation a long time ago and adapted policy to set things onto an even keel.
Sadly, they were not up to the task. Instead, they relish saying "No" to almost every proposal put forward. This delights the Nimbys, but is now causing real pain and will do for many years to come.
The Authors of the 1947 Town and Country Planning Act would be spinning in their graves to see the damage to society that their Planning system has caused due to the perverse interpretations of the principles by our former and current LPAs
Boooo!! Down with Planners!! |  | | |
| 80% of UK growth from Immigration on 10:03 - Aug 23 with 4128 views | BrixtonBlue |
How would you feel if a wealthy immigrant came over here and ploughed £100m into Town and got us promoted playing scintillating football? | |
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| 80% of UK growth from Immigration on 10:26 - Aug 23 with 4107 views | Herbivore |
Benters, I think the reason people question whether you may be racist or xenophobic is down to a few things. Firstly, I'm not sure you've ever really demonstrated how it is that immigration negatively affects you, living in Great Bentley and working as a sole trader. So there's no personal negative impact on you from immigration and in fact you've spoken about how well 'foreigners' in the NHS have treated you. So actually, on a personal level you've benefited from immigration. So why so against it?
Now, you may say you're worried about the impact on the NHS and housing. But it's been repeatedly - and I mean repeatedly - pointed out to you that immigrants contribute to the NHS massively through both staffing it and funding it through paying tax. Immigration has a net economic benefit to the UK, they put in more than they take out. And that's despite the fact that those seeking asylum or on certain visas aren't actually allowed to work and contribute, however much they'd like to. It's the government preventing the contribution of migrants being greater still. And in terms of housing, it's not the fault of immigrants that insufficient housing is being built and where it is being built they're assisting in building it. EU migrants can't come to the UK and get social housing, many of them live in poor quality and overcrowded housing in order to make their money go further.
So I think what people struggle with is that you've had positive personal experiences of immigration and the economic benefits of immigration are well known. Your concerns have been shown to be unfounded. And yet you still raise constant worries about immigration. What else is left for you to base that on if not being a bit afraid of foreign types? |  |
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| 80% of UK growth from Immigration on 10:27 - Aug 23 with 4104 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| 80% of UK growth from Immigration on 07:10 - Aug 23 by Coastalblue |
Who do you think will build the houses and staff the NHS? |
Bizarrely I have just had my blood taken by a lovely young Suffolk woman at the GP's. She wanted to become a fully qualified nurse but the prospect of £27k debt plus living costs and unpaid work had put her, and many of her friends she said, off. And who can blame her? She said "Oh well it's there loss." To which I replied "Actually it is ours" and would have liked to add "......and yours!"
And people try to convince me we are not debt slaves!
None of this is the fault of immigrants ! |  |
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| 80% of UK growth from Immigration on 10:32 - Aug 23 with 4090 views | noggin |
| 80% of UK growth from Immigration on 10:26 - Aug 23 by Herbivore |
Benters, I think the reason people question whether you may be racist or xenophobic is down to a few things. Firstly, I'm not sure you've ever really demonstrated how it is that immigration negatively affects you, living in Great Bentley and working as a sole trader. So there's no personal negative impact on you from immigration and in fact you've spoken about how well 'foreigners' in the NHS have treated you. So actually, on a personal level you've benefited from immigration. So why so against it?
Now, you may say you're worried about the impact on the NHS and housing. But it's been repeatedly - and I mean repeatedly - pointed out to you that immigrants contribute to the NHS massively through both staffing it and funding it through paying tax. Immigration has a net economic benefit to the UK, they put in more than they take out. And that's despite the fact that those seeking asylum or on certain visas aren't actually allowed to work and contribute, however much they'd like to. It's the government preventing the contribution of migrants being greater still. And in terms of housing, it's not the fault of immigrants that insufficient housing is being built and where it is being built they're assisting in building it. EU migrants can't come to the UK and get social housing, many of them live in poor quality and overcrowded housing in order to make their money go further.
So I think what people struggle with is that you've had positive personal experiences of immigration and the economic benefits of immigration are well known. Your concerns have been shown to be unfounded. And yet you still raise constant worries about immigration. What else is left for you to base that on if not being a bit afraid of foreign types? |
Sits back and waits for reply. | |
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| 80% of UK growth from Immigration on 10:34 - Aug 23 with 4087 views | Pinewoodblue |
| 80% of UK growth from Immigration on 10:26 - Aug 23 by Herbivore |
Benters, I think the reason people question whether you may be racist or xenophobic is down to a few things. Firstly, I'm not sure you've ever really demonstrated how it is that immigration negatively affects you, living in Great Bentley and working as a sole trader. So there's no personal negative impact on you from immigration and in fact you've spoken about how well 'foreigners' in the NHS have treated you. So actually, on a personal level you've benefited from immigration. So why so against it?
Now, you may say you're worried about the impact on the NHS and housing. But it's been repeatedly - and I mean repeatedly - pointed out to you that immigrants contribute to the NHS massively through both staffing it and funding it through paying tax. Immigration has a net economic benefit to the UK, they put in more than they take out. And that's despite the fact that those seeking asylum or on certain visas aren't actually allowed to work and contribute, however much they'd like to. It's the government preventing the contribution of migrants being greater still. And in terms of housing, it's not the fault of immigrants that insufficient housing is being built and where it is being built they're assisting in building it. EU migrants can't come to the UK and get social housing, many of them live in poor quality and overcrowded housing in order to make their money go further.
So I think what people struggle with is that you've had positive personal experiences of immigration and the economic benefits of immigration are well known. Your concerns have been shown to be unfounded. And yet you still raise constant worries about immigration. What else is left for you to base that on if not being a bit afraid of foreign types? |
The problem isn't Benters it is those, you included, who feel they have a God given right to point out, in an aggressive manner, what they see as the error of his ways.
It never ceases to amaze me how you cannot see that your intolerance is unacceptable. | |
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| 80% of UK growth from Immigration on 10:35 - Aug 23 with 4083 views | The_Last_Baron |
| 80% of UK growth from Immigration on 07:38 - Aug 23 by dickie |
Because the cost of living far exceeds any wage from such a job - hence you find 10 Eastern Europeans living in a two up/two down. They're being exploited. |
Exactly. A modern form of slave labour. I know Polish guys who live three to a room! Can you believe that. Its the only way they can live and make it worth while being in the UK.
The EU has destroyed the three former Soviet Baltic States. Lithuania is empty, all the young have gone and there is nothing left. Nothing. The sooner the EU collapses the better it will be for Europe. |  |
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