| Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? 15:47 - Sep 22 with 23574 views | Vic |
I naively thought that negotiating is about having a bit of give and take - but so far I've seen nothing from the EU that suggests they are willing to 'give' anything. Looks a lot like 'you give and I take.' |  |
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| Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 20:13 - Sep 22 with 5126 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 16:14 - Sep 22 by tcblue |
In private and public, the gigantic balls up our government is making of it is the only plus point in the whole Brexit thing for me.
It's hilarious yet frightening, just like the last few minutes of a Town game under Paul Jewell when we had a one goal lead. |
A one goal lead under Jewell....... I missed that one ! |  |
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| Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 20:14 - Sep 22 with 5113 views | No9 |
| Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 16:04 - Sep 22 by chicoazul |
I'm pretty sure they don't want one of their major cash cows walking out the door. |
According to the tories this afternoon the UK pays £9 bn a year to be in the EU.
If the Uk doesn't pay in & the other 27 pick up the tab, in reality given the EU current growth the shortfall will not ba a massive burden.
? how does £9 bn a year stack up with £350Mn a week? |  | | |
| Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 20:20 - Sep 22 with 5121 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 17:28 - Sep 22 by Darth_Koont |
Greece? Isn't that the one that burnt all their own clothes and spent all their money on a gimp mask? Then turned round and said "we've been a very bad boy"?
Us and the Greeks always had control. Us and the Greeks can't handle the responsibility or deal with the consequences. I feel sorry for the innocent majority of the British and Greek populations. |
So even you will blame the poor/victims if it suits your narrative .
Edit....even though you qualify things in the second paragraph why not criticise the EU for making the average Greek suffer the consequences of the actions of their bankers and elites.
Are you in favour of austerity too ? [Post edited 22 Sep 2017 20:29]
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| Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 20:35 - Sep 22 with 5093 views | Darth_Koont |
| Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 20:20 - Sep 22 by BanksterDebtSlave |
So even you will blame the poor/victims if it suits your narrative .
Edit....even though you qualify things in the second paragraph why not criticise the EU for making the average Greek suffer the consequences of the actions of their bankers and elites.
Are you in favour of austerity too ? [Post edited 22 Sep 2017 20:29]
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Because EU member states HAVE CONTROL. And the resultant responsibility when they f@ck up.
There seem to be a lot of misconceptions from both sides of the political divide about what the EU's role is or how the Eurozone works. |  |
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| Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 20:40 - Sep 22 with 5070 views | No9 |
| Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 20:20 - Sep 22 by BanksterDebtSlave |
So even you will blame the poor/victims if it suits your narrative .
Edit....even though you qualify things in the second paragraph why not criticise the EU for making the average Greek suffer the consequences of the actions of their bankers and elites.
Are you in favour of austerity too ? [Post edited 22 Sep 2017 20:29]
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Many of the Greek problems were of their own making.
Had they collected taxes properly they would have a voided a lot of the pain.
Had they told Cameron / Osborne not to let them buy properties in London - hiding their money- they could have saved themselves a lot of pain.
etc. etc. etc. | | | |
| Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 20:44 - Sep 22 with 5077 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 20:35 - Sep 22 by Darth_Koont |
Because EU member states HAVE CONTROL. And the resultant responsibility when they f@ck up.
There seem to be a lot of misconceptions from both sides of the political divide about what the EU's role is or how the Eurozone works. |
So the Greek people are responsible for their predicament, Goldman Sachs didn't cook the books and the EU, even when the IMF favoured it, were correct to refuse any debt forgiveness. The EU are a blameless statist pro globalisation, eternal growth dream? | |
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| Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 20:45 - Sep 22 with 5058 views | No9 |
| Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 20:44 - Sep 22 by BanksterDebtSlave |
So the Greek people are responsible for their predicament, Goldman Sachs didn't cook the books and the EU, even when the IMF favoured it, were correct to refuse any debt forgiveness. The EU are a blameless statist pro globalisation, eternal growth dream? |
According to the tories the EU are not globalists- one of the reasons they want to leave??? | | | |
| Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 20:47 - Sep 22 with 5065 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 20:40 - Sep 22 by No9 |
Many of the Greek problems were of their own making.
Had they collected taxes properly they would have a voided a lot of the pain.
Had they told Cameron / Osborne not to let them buy properties in London - hiding their money- they could have saved themselves a lot of pain.
etc. etc. etc. |
Yet strangely the EU did not push for any of this regarding the second point and happily turned a blind eye to the first part if enough stuff was being bought from Germany with lovely Euros ! | |
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| Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 20:53 - Sep 22 with 5046 views | No9 |
| Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 20:47 - Sep 22 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Yet strangely the EU did not push for any of this regarding the second point and happily turned a blind eye to the first part if enough stuff was being bought from Germany with lovely Euros ! |
Because one of the Greeks main industries is shipping they need the Euro to be able to trade WW.
You can imagine a Greek ship turning up in a foreign port wanting fuel / victualing / fees etc. offering to pay in Dracma's wih no international backing? | | | |
| Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 20:58 - Sep 22 with 5049 views | Darth_Koont |
| Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 20:44 - Sep 22 by BanksterDebtSlave |
So the Greek people are responsible for their predicament, Goldman Sachs didn't cook the books and the EU, even when the IMF favoured it, were correct to refuse any debt forgiveness. The EU are a blameless statist pro globalisation, eternal growth dream? |
Of course they're not responsible. The government is.
Once your own government f@cks up why should other states pay for it? Unless of course it's a humanitarian issue. | |
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| Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 21:17 - Sep 22 with 5022 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 20:45 - Sep 22 by No9 |
According to the tories the EU are not globalists- one of the reasons they want to leave??? |
I'm hoping the Tories will not be in power for all time and they lie !
Edit....voting Lexit is very much playing the long game . [Post edited 22 Sep 2017 21:29]
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| Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 21:21 - Sep 22 with 5015 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 20:53 - Sep 22 by No9 |
Because one of the Greeks main industries is shipping they need the Euro to be able to trade WW.
You can imagine a Greek ship turning up in a foreign port wanting fuel / victualing / fees etc. offering to pay in Dracma's wih no international backing? |
How ever did they manage before the Euro.......are you and DK essentially arguing that we should just make the best of a bad thing ? | |
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| Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 21:27 - Sep 22 with 5009 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 20:58 - Sep 22 by Darth_Koont |
Of course they're not responsible. The government is.
Once your own government f@cks up why should other states pay for it? Unless of course it's a humanitarian issue. |
Wasn't there something to do with a global debt crisis......so the weakest must suffer dished out by the dominatrix EU (to get back to the gimp starting point !) And that dominatrix is the gimp of global corporatism ! | |
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| Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 21:35 - Sep 22 with 4992 views | Darth_Koont |
| Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 21:27 - Sep 22 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Wasn't there something to do with a global debt crisis......so the weakest must suffer dished out by the dominatrix EU (to get back to the gimp starting point !) And that dominatrix is the gimp of global corporatism ! |
No. | |
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| Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 22:02 - Sep 22 with 4967 views | eireblue |
The Tories have already given away their red line.
"No deal, is better than a bad deal"
EU: Fine, tell us what you want, we will either take it or leave you to it. |  | | |
| Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 22:18 - Sep 22 with 4946 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 21:35 - Sep 22 by Darth_Koont |
No. |
So Greece hasn't done it's bit to help recapitalise the banks ...... you see no links ? | |
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| Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 22:33 - Sep 22 with 4936 views | portmanking |
Certainly going to get much more interesting... Germany is becoming increasingly divided due to Merkel and the migrant crisis. Farage had one thing right... continued anti-democracy will soon bring things to fever pitch levels. | | | |
| Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 23:02 - Sep 22 with 4908 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 22:02 - Sep 22 by eireblue |
The Tories have already given away their red line.
"No deal, is better than a bad deal"
EU: Fine, tell us what you want, we will either take it or leave you to it. |
The EU haven’t said tell us what you want. They are refusing to discuss any deal until the divorce settlement has been agreed. |  |
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| Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 23:05 - Sep 22 with 4906 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 20:20 - Sep 22 by BanksterDebtSlave |
So even you will blame the poor/victims if it suits your narrative .
Edit....even though you qualify things in the second paragraph why not criticise the EU for making the average Greek suffer the consequences of the actions of their bankers and elites.
Are you in favour of austerity too ? [Post edited 22 Sep 2017 20:29]
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I had a chuckle to myself a few years ago when Ed Balls was on Question Time. He was banging on about Tory austerity being too far and too fast. Then when the subject of Greece came up he said they had lived beyond their means and had make cuts in spending (far harsher than anything done by Osborne) if they wanted an EU bail out. | |
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| Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 23:11 - Sep 22 with 4905 views | StokieBlue |
| Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 21:27 - Sep 22 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Wasn't there something to do with a global debt crisis......so the weakest must suffer dished out by the dominatrix EU (to get back to the gimp starting point !) And that dominatrix is the gimp of global corporatism ! |
This isn't right as we have been over many times.
Greece ran a huge budget deficit for a long time whilst also having one of the largest tax evasion problems in the world. The population wanted everything without worrying how to pay for it.
The debt crisis did mean that liquidity for the Greek banks and government dried up but that was only because they were such a credit risk it would have been foolish to lend them more money sending good after bad.
It wasn't anything to do with the EU elites wanting to destroy them or them being the weakest. It was to do with extremely poor fiscal management over a long period which was only sustainable due to very high credit liquidity at reasonable rates.
SB [Post edited 22 Sep 2017 23:13]
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 23:43 - Sep 22 with 4871 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 23:11 - Sep 22 by StokieBlue |
This isn't right as we have been over many times.
Greece ran a huge budget deficit for a long time whilst also having one of the largest tax evasion problems in the world. The population wanted everything without worrying how to pay for it.
The debt crisis did mean that liquidity for the Greek banks and government dried up but that was only because they were such a credit risk it would have been foolish to lend them more money sending good after bad.
It wasn't anything to do with the EU elites wanting to destroy them or them being the weakest. It was to do with extremely poor fiscal management over a long period which was only sustainable due to very high credit liquidity at reasonable rates.
SB [Post edited 22 Sep 2017 23:13]
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You have been over it but I do not agree..... if debt is dished out then the person doing the giving has to accept the possibility of losing 'their money '.....however we are told that some are "too big to fail " and if the worse comes to the worse will be made good out of our tax.
Where is the risk to justify their interest ?
Edit ...you don't think they were made an example of for Italy, Spain, Portugal and Ireland. Wouldn't they have been better off in Greece to follow the Icelandic Path? [Post edited 22 Sep 2017 23:46]
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| Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 23:49 - Sep 22 with 4857 views | StokieBlue |
| Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 23:43 - Sep 22 by BanksterDebtSlave |
You have been over it but I do not agree..... if debt is dished out then the person doing the giving has to accept the possibility of losing 'their money '.....however we are told that some are "too big to fail " and if the worse comes to the worse will be made good out of our tax.
Where is the risk to justify their interest ?
Edit ...you don't think they were made an example of for Italy, Spain, Portugal and Ireland. Wouldn't they have been better off in Greece to follow the Icelandic Path? [Post edited 22 Sep 2017 23:46]
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It was up to Greece which path to follow, as discussed it would probably have been in their interest to default and devalue. However that would run the risk of being locked out of the credit markets going forward.
I agree entirely that the person taking on the risk is also responsible, however that is not what you've been saying. You've been saying repeatedly it was some plot to enrich the EU elite whilst hurting the general populace of Greece. That's not the case, it was simple years (decades really) of financial mismanagement by Greece coming to a head when the people you have highlighted refused to lend them any more money.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 23:51 - Sep 22 with 4854 views | eireblue |
| Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 23:02 - Sep 22 by GlasgowBlue |
The EU haven’t said tell us what you want. They are refusing to discuss any deal until the divorce settlement has been agreed. |
" I am concerned [by the need] to have a partner for the negotiation as quickly as possible. That’s my preoccupation today. I need a British delegation on the other side of the table, a head of the British delegation that is stable, accountable and that has a mandate.
We’re publishing our two documents on the rights of citizens and the financial settlement. The UK will doubtless have their own propositions that I will examine when I have them. We need explanations and precision on these subjects, during the negotiations. And then secondly, the UK government should make explicit what it hopes for from the new partnership." | | | |
| Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 23:52 - Sep 22 with 4851 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 23:49 - Sep 22 by StokieBlue |
It was up to Greece which path to follow, as discussed it would probably have been in their interest to default and devalue. However that would run the risk of being locked out of the credit markets going forward.
I agree entirely that the person taking on the risk is also responsible, however that is not what you've been saying. You've been saying repeatedly it was some plot to enrich the EU elite whilst hurting the general populace of Greece. That's not the case, it was simple years (decades really) of financial mismanagement by Greece coming to a head when the people you have highlighted refused to lend them any more money.
SB |
I'm not saying there's a plot just that in a choice between people (plebs) and finance (elites) you know who the EU will look out for ! | |
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| Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 00:06 - Sep 23 with 4845 views | bournemouthblue |
| Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 15:55 - Sep 22 by homer_123 |
If the EU want some sort of deal with the UK - then they'll need to move eventually.
It's interesting that whilst the EU would like to make a showcase of ensuring that the UK doesn't get a great deal from leaving, they are also under pressure internally to ensure that their members (who do want good relations with the UK) are kept happy and can trade etc.
The reality is, we are leaving (although I still think we won't) and it is within both the UK and EUs interest to get some sort of deal done. |
The problem is we had pretty good deal whilst in it
No Schengen, no Euro
We've always been seen as half out anyway so how we think we'll end up with something better I don't know
One thing the referendum never really seemed to cover was that fact it costs more to send things further, it's as simple as that. We do far more trade with local EU partners than ones further afield and will continue to do so even when we leave.
You still do most of your trade locally because it's logistically easier, that's not to say we won't have access to markets further afield, barriers or no barriers, the distance means a greater cost ultimately.
It will be interesting to see just how big a scapegoat the EU really was when it's our own government responsible for various c0ck ups in the future. |  |
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