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I naively thought that negotiating is about having a bit of give and take - but so far I've seen nothing from the EU that suggests they are willing to 'give' anything. Looks a lot like 'you give and I take.'
Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 00:06 - Sep 23 by bournemouthblue
The problem is we had pretty good deal whilst in it
No Schengen, no Euro
We've always been seen as half out anyway so how we think we'll end up with something better I don't know
One thing the referendum never really seemed to cover was that fact it costs more to send things further, it's as simple as that. We do far more trade with local EU partners than ones further afield and will continue to do so even when we leave.
You still do most of your trade locally because it's logistically easier, that's not to say we won't have access to markets further afield, barriers or no barriers, the distance means a greater cost ultimately.
It will be interesting to see just how big a scapegoat the EU really was when it's our own government responsible for various c0ck ups in the future.
Well said.
And who are these partners around the world anyway? Even today Germany has a trade surplus with Australia whereas we have a trade deficit, which shows what we're up against.
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Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 02:27 - Sep 23 with 3340 views
Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 00:06 - Sep 23 by bournemouthblue
The problem is we had pretty good deal whilst in it
No Schengen, no Euro
We've always been seen as half out anyway so how we think we'll end up with something better I don't know
One thing the referendum never really seemed to cover was that fact it costs more to send things further, it's as simple as that. We do far more trade with local EU partners than ones further afield and will continue to do so even when we leave.
You still do most of your trade locally because it's logistically easier, that's not to say we won't have access to markets further afield, barriers or no barriers, the distance means a greater cost ultimately.
It will be interesting to see just how big a scapegoat the EU really was when it's our own government responsible for various c0ck ups in the future.
Some good points except you're wrong about it costing more to send things further. It's cheaper to ship goods from China to the UK than it is to drive them from Newcastle to London.
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Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 07:21 - Sep 23 with 3308 views
Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 23:51 - Sep 22 by eireblue
" I am concerned [by the need] to have a partner for the negotiation as quickly as possible. That’s my preoccupation today. I need a British delegation on the other side of the table, a head of the British delegation that is stable, accountable and that has a mandate.
We’re publishing our two documents on the rights of citizens and the financial settlement. The UK will doubtless have their own propositions that I will examine when I have them. We need explanations and precision on these subjects, during the negotiations. And then secondly, the UK government should make explicit what it hopes for from the new partnership."
That's the point though isn't it!we are there with proposals yet all we get back is no. I think we will all have to face reality and get used to the fact they are not going to give us a deal that we can accept.T hey are not going to let other countries see that they will be better off out of the EU! Eireblue you need to be concerned about the EU not talking as the vast majority of freight in and out of Ireland goes through the UK obviously at the moment tarrif free!What happens to your economy when tariffs have to be paid?
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Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 07:23 - Sep 23 with 3304 views
Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 07:21 - Sep 23 by bluejacko
That's the point though isn't it!we are there with proposals yet all we get back is no. I think we will all have to face reality and get used to the fact they are not going to give us a deal that we can accept.T hey are not going to let other countries see that they will be better off out of the EU! Eireblue you need to be concerned about the EU not talking as the vast majority of freight in and out of Ireland goes through the UK obviously at the moment tarrif free!What happens to your economy when tariffs have to be paid?
"We are there with proposals"
What "proposals"?
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Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 07:44 - Sep 23 with 3289 views
Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 07:23 - Sep 23 by Darth_Koont
"We are there with proposals"
What "proposals"?
Funny isn't it you only read and believe what you want. Here you are here. Proposals over EU citizens rights,Irish border,trade deal and the amount we are supposed to pay all met with a stony NO. Still everything we do is obviously wrong isn't it?
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Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 10:03 - Sep 23 with 3227 views
Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 16:46 - Sep 22 by blueislander
It is obvious that the UK politicians are ill-prepared for these negotiations. Theresa May campaigned to remain in the EU. That in itself is an anomaly. The EU's position is much easier from a negotiating standpoint. They don't have to set the agenda. They may find it difficult later to get a consensus between all the member states.
Sorry, I'm Remain but to say that the EU negotiators don't have to set an agenda is naive. Everyone looks to set an agenda before negotiations just as a wise General looks for the battlefield that gives his troops an advantage.
Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 16:25 - Sep 22 by meekreech
The EU do not negotiate they dictate ! If you are looking to upset the non-democratic bureaucracy by leaving they will find any number of ways to frustrate the process . The gravy train must not be disturbed by anyone who wants self determination and government or anything else which takes away the power exerted by Germany .
Blimey, are you the scriptwriter for that ancient North Korean newsreader lady?
Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 07:21 - Sep 23 by bluejacko
That's the point though isn't it!we are there with proposals yet all we get back is no. I think we will all have to face reality and get used to the fact they are not going to give us a deal that we can accept.T hey are not going to let other countries see that they will be better off out of the EU! Eireblue you need to be concerned about the EU not talking as the vast majority of freight in and out of Ireland goes through the UK obviously at the moment tarrif free!What happens to your economy when tariffs have to be paid?
There a few strategies the UK could have chosen.
But the UK leadership is weak, not particularly competent, scared, divided, and more importantly has been using the EU as a bogey man for many years.
The strategy they have taken in basic games theory is chicken. UK has now swerved.
A better strategy may have been a more empathetic approach, instead of positioning the EU as an evil bureaucratic empire, that needed to be opposed. But that would have meant standing up to the hard brexiters, and also going back on years of rhetoric about the EU.
Also, you raise a good point, that the sound-bite Brexiters don't recognise.
There are 27 different entities. All have to be happy with the deal. In the Irish situation one would hope that a similar arrangement is made that has been done previously with Switzerland and Norway re transporting goods between EU countries, but in transit over a non-EU. This makes sense for the UK as well.
Where stuff maybe more interesting is take a country like Slovenia or Latvia. Most of the EU trade sound-bites have been around EU needs us more then we need them.
Take a country that doesn't do much trade with the UK. It has an equal vote in any trade deal.
So it's vote on a deal is not determined by what it gets from an agreement between the UK and the EU, but maybe between what it gets from the EU by not exercising a veto.
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Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 11:30 - Sep 23 with 3178 views
Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 11:16 - Sep 23 by eireblue
There a few strategies the UK could have chosen.
But the UK leadership is weak, not particularly competent, scared, divided, and more importantly has been using the EU as a bogey man for many years.
The strategy they have taken in basic games theory is chicken. UK has now swerved.
A better strategy may have been a more empathetic approach, instead of positioning the EU as an evil bureaucratic empire, that needed to be opposed. But that would have meant standing up to the hard brexiters, and also going back on years of rhetoric about the EU.
Also, you raise a good point, that the sound-bite Brexiters don't recognise.
There are 27 different entities. All have to be happy with the deal. In the Irish situation one would hope that a similar arrangement is made that has been done previously with Switzerland and Norway re transporting goods between EU countries, but in transit over a non-EU. This makes sense for the UK as well.
Where stuff maybe more interesting is take a country like Slovenia or Latvia. Most of the EU trade sound-bites have been around EU needs us more then we need them.
Take a country that doesn't do much trade with the UK. It has an equal vote in any trade deal.
So it's vote on a deal is not determined by what it gets from an agreement between the UK and the EU, but maybe between what it gets from the EU by not exercising a veto.
Good points, as far as trade between the EU and the Republic goes do you think that, if Brexit does go ahead, a mini-Felixstowe might get built near Dublin so that containers can bypass the UK?
Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 11:30 - Sep 23 by WeWereZombies
Good points, as far as trade between the EU and the Republic goes do you think that, if Brexit does go ahead, a mini-Felixstowe might get built near Dublin so that containers can bypass the UK?
Not really an expert at all, but an issue that is a worry with the Dublin Port is that the infrastructure built has been sized around a customs union.
As soon as a customs border is put in place, that causes delays, backlog, storage requirements and uncertainty about delivery times.
Dublin or even Rosslare to Cherbourg, or even all the way round to the Antwerp/Rotterdam, maybe viable, but are slower routes. Which is not good for Irish Farmers.
I think the no deal line, is not believable, except for certain voters in the UK.
If Ireland would have a problem getting into the UK, then the same would also be true of UK trucks getting into France. A hard customs border would be bad for haulage from the UK getting into the EU.
The EU view may will be, fine UK, play hard ball, but what are you going to do at Dover/Felixstowe when a ship tuns up from the EU with parts/materials required for a UK manufacturer, the day after Brexit, with no deal in place? I don't know enough, but I suspect, UK ports will not be ready for Brexit and a customers border with the EU if there isn't this transition in place.
Triggering Article 50, when the UK was not ready for the consequences, was pure incompetence. To me, it seems May is buying 2 more years, because reality is starting to set in.
It is always funny when Dr Fox comes out and tells us about all the free trade deals that could be done.
Wouldn't surprise me if countries are queuing up to "negotiate" with May's team.
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Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 17:10 - Sep 23 with 3116 views
Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 11:30 - Sep 23 by WeWereZombies
Good points, as far as trade between the EU and the Republic goes do you think that, if Brexit does go ahead, a mini-Felixstowe might get built near Dublin so that containers can bypass the UK?
Geert Bourgeois, the head of the Flemish government, stressed the need for trade talks: “I’ve met twice Barnier. I brought him to Zeebrugge. 45% of the trade of the export from Zeebrugge is to the United Kingdom, so that’s why I do my best to influence all the people, the ambassadors of the surrounding countries, to work together”.
Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 08:38 - Sep 23 by bluejacko
Funny isn't it you only read and believe what you want. Here you are here. Proposals over EU citizens rights,Irish border,trade deal and the amount we are supposed to pay all met with a stony NO. Still everything we do is obviously wrong isn't it?
Again, what proposals?
I've just heard political posturing. You appear to have heard something concrete so spill the beans.
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Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 21:37 - Sep 23 with 3072 views
Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 02:27 - Sep 23 by FrowsyArmLarry
Some good points except you're wrong about it costing more to send things further. It's cheaper to ship goods from China to the UK than it is to drive them from Newcastle to London.
Can you present some waybills to support your claim? I would like to see tham as I doubt your are correct.
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Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 21:49 - Sep 23 with 3064 views
Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 17:10 - Sep 23 by GlasgowBlue
Geert Bourgeois, the head of the Flemish government, stressed the need for trade talks: “I’ve met twice Barnier. I brought him to Zeebrugge. 45% of the trade of the export from Zeebrugge is to the United Kingdom, so that’s why I do my best to influence all the people, the ambassadors of the surrounding countries, to work together”.
A quote direct from Guido? Did Guido tell you how much of the 45% is the gas we need that comes through the interconnected? Or how much is transhipped to the UK from HK, Japan, America?
Doubt Guido would understand gas
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Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 22:28 - Sep 23 with 3052 views
Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 22:28 - Sep 23 by FrowsyArmLarry
I was wrong. It's cheaper to send something from China to the UK than it is to send it from your LOCAL shop to your house.
This was a good watch, unfortunatels not available on iplayer now (was broadcast on BBC4 in May '17). This is the only place I found it.........
watch from 57 mins to hear the quote.
It would be interesting to compare real freight rartes and get actual waybills. Now the rail head is established between London & China it is qucker but, is it cheaper? As an aside, in my experience, freight rates are cheaper in Europe than they are in the UK.
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Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 11:00 - Sep 24 with 2963 views
Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 10:48 - Sep 24 by No9
It would be interesting to compare real freight rartes and get actual waybills. Now the rail head is established between London & China it is qucker but, is it cheaper? As an aside, in my experience, freight rates are cheaper in Europe than they are in the UK.
The obvious question is that, although the infrastructre exists to import/export from China, how much would it cost to export elsewhere? Not that we have any markets to export to anyway!
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Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 11:22 - Sep 24 with 2947 views
Is it just me that thinks the EU has shown no sign of 'negotiating' yet? on 11:00 - Sep 24 by FrowsyArmLarry
The obvious question is that, although the infrastructre exists to import/export from China, how much would it cost to export elsewhere? Not that we have any markets to export to anyway!
Your questions are valid which is why it is important o go on freight rates rather than a TV programme?
The UK has plenty of markets to export to but we don't have that much the world wants to buy or, moer importantly , can afford. Plus there is a serious lack of endeavour by companies in sneding products overseas hence when you walk around shoppping areas anroad you find UK good in the luxury shops - other than fishermans friend which are everywhere
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