| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 13:21 - Jul 23 with 6840 views | The_Romford_Blue |
It genuinely stuns me how anyone can think it's a good idea to send a death threat to a doctor or nurse who's job it is to look after seriously ill children. |  |
|  |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 13:24 - Jul 23 with 6838 views | BlueBadger |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 13:21 - Jul 23 by The_Romford_Blue |
It genuinely stuns me how anyone can think it's a good idea to send a death threat to a doctor or nurse who's job it is to look after seriously ill children. |
It the definition of truly black irony, to see people who are trying to argue what is ultimately a pro-life position in favour of killing people who don't agree with them.
[Post edited 23 Jul 2017 13:29]
|  |
| |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 13:49 - Jul 23 with 6759 views | blueprint |
I am truly appalled by how Great Ormand Street is being given a bad name by some people . I lost my son to cancer in 2013 when he was aged 22 months old. The wonderful staff at GOSH did everything they could for him when we were there. They are truly amazing and caring and deserve nothing but praise . |  | | |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 14:36 - Jul 23 with 6630 views | Illinoisblue |
Further proof that people are just the fking worst. We're nothing more tha a virus with shoes (copyright Bill Hicks). |  |
| |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 15:05 - Jul 23 with 6577 views | Swansea_Blue |
Disgusting. There are some idiots around.
Although I don't see what the problem is with letting him have access to a different treatment. They've literally got nothing to lose. And I suspect the lawyers will be taking more than the treatment costs. I know where i'd rather spend the money... |  |
| |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 15:15 - Jul 23 with 6554 views | Guthrum |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 15:05 - Jul 23 by Swansea_Blue |
Disgusting. There are some idiots around.
Although I don't see what the problem is with letting him have access to a different treatment. They've literally got nothing to lose. And I suspect the lawyers will be taking more than the treatment costs. I know where i'd rather spend the money... |
The argument is largely about how much suffering the child a) is experiencing being artificially kept alive (while, according to GOSH, getting increasing and irreversable brain damage) and b) would experience being transported to the USA for this novel and untested treatment.
The family (unsurprisingly) feel there is still hope and disagree with the hospital's assessment of his condition and comfort levels. |  |
| |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 15:18 - Jul 23 with 6542 views | BlueBadger |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 15:05 - Jul 23 by Swansea_Blue |
Disgusting. There are some idiots around.
Although I don't see what the problem is with letting him have access to a different treatment. They've literally got nothing to lose. And I suspect the lawyers will be taking more than the treatment costs. I know where i'd rather spend the money... |
It's essentially a 'bests interests' question. The hospital are arguing that subjecting a critically ill baby to a hugely risky, lengthy and uncomfortable transfer to the United States for an essentially unproven treatment that is not curative and unlikely to restore lost functions is ultimately only likely lead to still further distress and suffering for both child and parents and that switching the focus of treatment to comfort and dignity would a far better option for him that the above. | |
| |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 15:23 - Jul 23 with 6525 views | BlueBadger |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 15:15 - Jul 23 by Guthrum |
The argument is largely about how much suffering the child a) is experiencing being artificially kept alive (while, according to GOSH, getting increasing and irreversable brain damage) and b) would experience being transported to the USA for this novel and untested treatment.
The family (unsurprisingly) feel there is still hope and disagree with the hospital's assessment of his condition and comfort levels. |
When it comes down to judicial review the courts will hear from a succession of experts who will be independent. So far, they've universally sided with GOSH in their assessment of this poor little lad's condition. It's my personal view that the parents, sadly, are already grieving the loss of their son but are unable to progress beyond the denial, anger and bargaining stages.
It's not an uncommon sight in critical care units the world over, but rarely taken to this extreme with a total breakdown in the relationship between family and healthcare professionals. | |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 15:34 - Jul 23 with 6490 views | Guthrum |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 15:23 - Jul 23 by BlueBadger |
When it comes down to judicial review the courts will hear from a succession of experts who will be independent. So far, they've universally sided with GOSH in their assessment of this poor little lad's condition. It's my personal view that the parents, sadly, are already grieving the loss of their son but are unable to progress beyond the denial, anger and bargaining stages.
It's not an uncommon sight in critical care units the world over, but rarely taken to this extreme with a total breakdown in the relationship between family and healthcare professionals. |
That is my impression also. Even the US doctor who developed this treatment has not (as far as I've seen) declared that it would be likely to work. | |
| |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 15:41 - Jul 23 with 6469 views | BlueBadger |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 15:34 - Jul 23 by Guthrum |
That is my impression also. Even the US doctor who developed this treatment has not (as far as I've seen) declared that it would be likely to work. |
The more you read into this case, the more you feel that the parents are desperately grasping at any and all straws, regardless of how unproven, unlikely to deliver real, genuine improvement and how difficult and dangerous it is to get the poor lad there for it in the first place. It's hugely, deeply sad for them and the behaviour of some of their supporters and certain politicians and institutions , particularly in the US, leaping onto the bandwagon is disgusting opportunism as it's worst. [Post edited 23 Jul 2017 16:18]
| |
| |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 16:39 - Jul 23 with 6346 views | Mullet |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 13:24 - Jul 23 by BlueBadger |
It the definition of truly black irony, to see people who are trying to argue what is ultimately a pro-life position in favour of killing people who don't agree with them.
[Post edited 23 Jul 2017 13:29]
|
There needs to be more and tougher punishments for threatening behaviour such as this.
I don't think fining them is a solution, jail is not the answer. Perhaps community service for a long and extended time is the way to go.
Regardless it irritates me we have so many spineless, unpatriotic sh1tbags that denigrate the NHS like this. My personal belief is that no healthcare professional wants to kill a child, even like Charlie Gard, but they understand the suffering is worse.
To not see that is one thing, to behave so ironically as you say is disgusting. |  |
| |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 16:56 - Jul 23 with 6285 views | GeoffSentence |
The world is fwll of absolwte cwnts.
Excwse my welsh. |  |
| |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 16:59 - Jul 23 with 6274 views | BlueBadger |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 16:39 - Jul 23 by Mullet |
There needs to be more and tougher punishments for threatening behaviour such as this.
I don't think fining them is a solution, jail is not the answer. Perhaps community service for a long and extended time is the way to go.
Regardless it irritates me we have so many spineless, unpatriotic sh1tbags that denigrate the NHS like this. My personal belief is that no healthcare professional wants to kill a child, even like Charlie Gard, but they understand the suffering is worse.
To not see that is one thing, to behave so ironically as you say is disgusting. |
Unconfirmed reports that other parents of patients there have been abused or threatened by 'Charlie's Army'.
If these people truly had any respect for human life they'd be lobbying for the money they've raised to be spent on research into mitochondrial disorders. | |
| |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 17:13 - Jul 23 with 6242 views | tiptreeblue |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 13:21 - Jul 23 by The_Romford_Blue |
It genuinely stuns me how anyone can think it's a good idea to send a death threat to a doctor or nurse who's job it is to look after seriously ill children. |
or, for that matter, any doctor or nurse mate |  | | |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 17:37 - Jul 23 with 6212 views | MJallday |
i was talking with mrs mj on this subject yesterday
i can see exactly why GOSH have come in for this critisism. frankly, i dont understand why they dont say "ok, your the parents, its your call - we've told you its not going to work, its on you" - but they havent - they seem to be playing politics/god. which is wrong.
however for for doctors and nurses to receive those level of threats is clearly moronic.
secondly, the parents must be going through absolute hell. i cant image it - but heres where it gets interesting.
in this example, GOSH have said "no chance" - but the amercians have said "10%" (albeit unsubstantiated and not directly related - but they are willing to give it a go)
now 10% or even 1% if still a chance. if the americans had said "hey, look, its game over" - you'd find it hard, but youd accept it - BUT thye havent.
so bearing that in mind, given that there is an albeit slim chance, there isnt a hospital, judge or individual on this planet that would or could prevent me physically removing my child from its premesis if i felt that they had a chance of survival somewhere else. |  |
| |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 17:38 - Jul 23 with 6210 views | MJallday |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 15:18 - Jul 23 by BlueBadger |
It's essentially a 'bests interests' question. The hospital are arguing that subjecting a critically ill baby to a hugely risky, lengthy and uncomfortable transfer to the United States for an essentially unproven treatment that is not curative and unlikely to restore lost functions is ultimately only likely lead to still further distress and suffering for both child and parents and that switching the focus of treatment to comfort and dignity would a far better option for him that the above. |
thats not their decision, its the parents decision.
thats whats wrong with this entire case. | |
| |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 17:46 - Jul 23 with 6189 views | tcblue |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 17:38 - Jul 23 by MJallday |
thats not their decision, its the parents decision.
thats whats wrong with this entire case. |
This is an extraordinary moral maze, because the same protective laws here are in effect also for Jehovah's Witnesses refusing blood transfusions for their children. The Gards are going through the same distressing process that JW parents are.
Would you support the rights of parents to refuse treatment in the same way? | | | |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 17:58 - Jul 23 with 6160 views | MJallday |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 17:46 - Jul 23 by tcblue |
This is an extraordinary moral maze, because the same protective laws here are in effect also for Jehovah's Witnesses refusing blood transfusions for their children. The Gards are going through the same distressing process that JW parents are.
Would you support the rights of parents to refuse treatment in the same way? |
in the gard case, one set of doctors has said theyve given up, others have said they havent. in this example, i would side with the parents.
in what youve said above , re : jehovahs witness - the doctors have said they can treat, but the parents would refuse. in this example, i would side with the doctors
i support any arrangement which would keep a child/person alive for the longest time possible. | |
| |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 18:03 - Jul 23 with 6146 views | BlueBadger |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 17:58 - Jul 23 by MJallday |
in the gard case, one set of doctors has said theyve given up, others have said they havent. in this example, i would side with the parents.
in what youve said above , re : jehovahs witness - the doctors have said they can treat, but the parents would refuse. in this example, i would side with the doctors
i support any arrangement which would keep a child/person alive for the longest time possible. |
Here's the thing, it's not just as simple as saying 'oh well, off you go to the states'. Transferring someone who is requiring level 3 acute care(i.e. ventilatory support) even to another part of a hospital is inherently dangerous and liable to cause harm. Those risks increase exponentially with the distance involved, severity of patient condition and age and general vulnerability of the individual concerned. Ethically, healthcare professionals are obliged by law to 'first do no harm', so you'd be hard pressed to find someone willing to undertake such a process. the other issue here is 'life at all costs'. This is a child who is unable to see, move or breathe unaided. At this point, life is not being preserved, death is being extended, therefore, it is in the best interests of Charlie to be allowed to pass away in dignity and comfort rather than being subjected to dangerous procedures and futile treatments. [Post edited 23 Jul 2017 23:59]
| |
| |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 18:04 - Jul 23 with 6143 views | DanTheMan |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 17:37 - Jul 23 by MJallday |
i was talking with mrs mj on this subject yesterday
i can see exactly why GOSH have come in for this critisism. frankly, i dont understand why they dont say "ok, your the parents, its your call - we've told you its not going to work, its on you" - but they havent - they seem to be playing politics/god. which is wrong.
however for for doctors and nurses to receive those level of threats is clearly moronic.
secondly, the parents must be going through absolute hell. i cant image it - but heres where it gets interesting.
in this example, GOSH have said "no chance" - but the amercians have said "10%" (albeit unsubstantiated and not directly related - but they are willing to give it a go)
now 10% or even 1% if still a chance. if the americans had said "hey, look, its game over" - you'd find it hard, but youd accept it - BUT thye havent.
so bearing that in mind, given that there is an albeit slim chance, there isnt a hospital, judge or individual on this planet that would or could prevent me physically removing my child from its premesis if i felt that they had a chance of survival somewhere else. |
How are they playing God by refusing to keep a child alive that would be otherwise dead without round the clock life support?
Unfortunately I would imagine they have a duty of care to the child and not to the parents of the child so if they believe (and all the experts agree) that this is just prolonging suffering, I don't really see why it's even got this far. It's an utterly tragic situation with no winners but I don't think GOSH have done anything wrong here. |  |
| |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 18:04 - Jul 23 with 6146 views | BlueBadger |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 17:37 - Jul 23 by MJallday |
i was talking with mrs mj on this subject yesterday
i can see exactly why GOSH have come in for this critisism. frankly, i dont understand why they dont say "ok, your the parents, its your call - we've told you its not going to work, its on you" - but they havent - they seem to be playing politics/god. which is wrong.
however for for doctors and nurses to receive those level of threats is clearly moronic.
secondly, the parents must be going through absolute hell. i cant image it - but heres where it gets interesting.
in this example, GOSH have said "no chance" - but the amercians have said "10%" (albeit unsubstantiated and not directly related - but they are willing to give it a go)
now 10% or even 1% if still a chance. if the americans had said "hey, look, its game over" - you'd find it hard, but youd accept it - BUT thye havent.
so bearing that in mind, given that there is an albeit slim chance, there isnt a hospital, judge or individual on this planet that would or could prevent me physically removing my child from its premesis if i felt that they had a chance of survival somewhere else. |
If you removed a child in the condition that young Charlie Gard is in, you would kill him.
And then face criminal action. [Post edited 23 Jul 2017 18:39]
| |
| |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 18:05 - Jul 23 with 6132 views | tcblue |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 17:58 - Jul 23 by MJallday |
in the gard case, one set of doctors has said theyve given up, others have said they havent. in this example, i would side with the parents.
in what youve said above , re : jehovahs witness - the doctors have said they can treat, but the parents would refuse. in this example, i would side with the doctors
i support any arrangement which would keep a child/person alive for the longest time possible. |
Okay. I don't know if I can be so black or white as that, I think quality of life comes into it massively. I've seen too much unnecessary suffering for the reason to keep persons alive as long as possible.
As I wrote, moral maze and heartbreaking. Sometimes those who are closest aren't able to make the right decisions. | | | |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 18:19 - Jul 23 with 6097 views | MJallday |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 18:04 - Jul 23 by DanTheMan |
How are they playing God by refusing to keep a child alive that would be otherwise dead without round the clock life support?
Unfortunately I would imagine they have a duty of care to the child and not to the parents of the child so if they believe (and all the experts agree) that this is just prolonging suffering, I don't really see why it's even got this far. It's an utterly tragic situation with no winners but I don't think GOSH have done anything wrong here. |
my opinion is that they are "playing god" by refusing to let him leave for treatment. thats quite simple - feel free to disagree - but im afraid you wont persuade me otherwise.
decisions like that are the parents decision, not the doctors and not the states - always.
From what is being reported - the americans think they have a chance - so why not take it?
as i said, it would be a bit different if they turned round and said "sorry, we agree with GOSH" - but they havent. | |
| |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 18:27 - Jul 23 with 6068 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 18:19 - Jul 23 by MJallday |
my opinion is that they are "playing god" by refusing to let him leave for treatment. thats quite simple - feel free to disagree - but im afraid you wont persuade me otherwise.
decisions like that are the parents decision, not the doctors and not the states - always.
From what is being reported - the americans think they have a chance - so why not take it?
as i said, it would be a bit different if they turned round and said "sorry, we agree with GOSH" - but they havent. |
What level of recovery have the Americans said they MIGHT be able to bring though?
As the kid is currently unable to breath, see, move or hear anything by himself as far as I'm aware | |
| |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 18:28 - Jul 23 with 6065 views | MJallday |
| Well, this is hugely depressing. on 18:04 - Jul 23 by BlueBadger |
If you removed a child in the condition that young Charlie Gard is in, you would kill him.
And then face criminal action. [Post edited 23 Jul 2017 18:39]
|
thats not strictly accurate. he can be moved (from what is being reported)
nethertheless - at the risk of going all "taxi driver" - if it was my child was in hospital, and that hospital were refusing to treat them, but another hospital said they would - then there isnt a doctor, nurse, judge or security guard that could stop me removing them to get them
of course, other options should be considered - for example, bringing other medical experts to him.
to be clear - id die for my children, id argue most parents would - so the "threat" of criminal action really doesnt bother me in the slightest.
in the interests of fairness, even IF he could be moved, and even IF he could be treated - he would never have the same quality of life that he should have as a little boy
the case is heartbreaking - so its easy to see why people get emotional over it. | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
